Off Topic Politics Thread

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ImpSaint said:
Labour's manifesto looks really good but I don't think they will be able to achieve much of it. I think the Tories will be able to get pretty close to what they say they will do.

You can have the best manifesto in the world but if no-one really thinks you can achieve it then it is not credible.

I would argue that far from being spin what I say will be shown in the election results. Lots of people that like the sound of Labour's manifesto won't vote for it because they don't believe it is realistic.
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So, now we are mixing up credible, believable, achievable and realistic... obviously it's not spin.. You know.. we are not privatising the NHS, we plan to balance the books by.... pick whatever date you like, immigration in the tens of thousands per year.... The Tories will get in but they wont get 'pretty close' to anything substantive they promise/predict. If you believe that they will, you are sadly unrealistic. Unless we talking Grammar Schools. It's about the route you travel. Mrs May isn't changing direction, she's just playing with the road signs. We are still heading for an isolationist,nationalistic Sh*tsville, where your kids, and my kid's kids will pay the price because the turkeys voting for Xmas maintain the direction of travel. My son works in West London in a nationally recognised firm in it's speciality. It's efficient and profitable. But not as profitable for the owners as closing the firm at the cost of 80 plus jobs and selling the site for housing for people who unless they can stump up 1/2 million+ for a flat, wont be able to afford. Something has got to change. It's a hard rain...
 
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Dear Europe,

I know you're all laughing now, but don't sleep on Trump. The fact that he's an idiot is exactly why he's so dangerous. The more you troll him, the more idiotic and therefore dangerous he becomes.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Dear Europe,

I know you're all laughing now, but don't sleep on Trump. The fact that he's an idiot is exactly why he's so dangerous. The more you troll him, the more idiotic and therefore dangerous he becomes.
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Perhaps we have more faith in your constitution than you do. I'm fairly confident he'll be reigned in and tied up in knots - perhaps literally - before he does too much damage (except to his country's reputation).
 
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ImpSaint said:
Labour's manifesto looks really good but I don't think they will be able to achieve much of it. I think the Tories will be able to get pretty close to what they say they will do.

You can have the best manifesto in the world but if no-one really thinks you can achieve it then it is not credible.

I would argue that far from being spin what I say will be shown in the election results. Lots of people that like the sound of Labour's manifesto won't vote for it because they don't believe it is realistic.
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Because it is easier to take money away from the poor, to fund their aims, than it is to take money away from Tory fund donating big companies and individuals, who are actually dictating the direction that this country is moving in.
Sometimes the hard choices need to be made, and imo, now is the time to do that and vote for hope over despair.

Sir Michael Fallon is already undermining May's claim that she will reduce immigration, by claiming that it just an "an ambition" but May's sound bite will catch the attention of the UKIP voters who will be suckered into voting for her on another false promise.
 
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St Badger said:
<laugh>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/trust-funds-school-fees-how-10456398
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It is a very good satirical article and exactly on the money however while it is right that the richj can easily afford to give more it still does not explain how they are going to make the rich pay more. That is the problem. Not the manifesto, the real world of getting them to pay more and while you protect globalism and the ability to move money across borders so easily you will never be able to make the manifesto work.

Even the 2 Millibands protected their future inheritance to avoid paying on it and Milliband (slightly)senior is somehow seen by many as the ideal man to be leader of the Labour party.
 
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Meanwhile, back at home. I did smile when I read that Labour are apparently playing the "fear card" by harping on about how pensioners are going to lose out under the Tories. So, highlighting what is a manifesto pledge is a fear card. Whereas saying that the leader of the Labour Party is fan of North Korea based on no evidence at all is rational debate. I get it now.

I await the first leaflet that tells me that JC smells of wee and poo. This would represent a rise in the standard of debate. I am no great fan of JC, but I note with satisfaction.that he slapped down a Labour activist for getting personal in his attack on a Tory spokesperson, declaring that Labour will attack policies not personalities.

If only we could conduct the debate based on evidenced rationale. I have built up a picture of some people on here, and am glad to see that those who hold diametrically opposed views to mine are putting forward reasoned arguments. Read and blush, tabloid rubbish!
 
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Puck said:
I guess the point is that, while the Conservatives do lack credibility when it comes to the deficit, if that's something you're actually concerned about then the Conservatives are still more credible than anyone else.

That's also aside from the fact that May has only been prime minister for a year and has already shown that her attitude to economics is rather different to Cameron's and Osborne's.
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I am very concerned about the deficit, not so much the debt. We do have to try and find a way to create a surplus and bring the debt down however in the short term we need to find a way to try and get close to spending what we bring in and then some time in the future be able to reduce the debt. I am not that bothered really about reaching that surplus in a 5 year term. We are way past that now. I just want to see a light at the end of the tunnel without fearing that the oar might wear out before we ever see it.
 
Missing Lambo said:
Meanwhile, back at home. I did smile when I read that Labour are apparently playing the "fear card" by harping on about how pensioners are going to lose out under the Tories. So, highlighting what is a manifesto pledge is a fear card. Whereas saying that the leader of the Labour Party is fan of North Korea based on no evidence at all is rational debate. I get it now.

I await the first leaflet that tells me that JC smells of wee and poo. This would represent a rise in the standard of debate. I am no great fan of JC, but I note with satisfaction.that he slapped down a Labour activist for getting personal in his attack on a Tory spokesperson, declaring that Labour will attack policies not personalities.

If only we could conduct the debate based on evidenced rationale. I have built up a picture of some people on here, and am glad to see that those who hold diametrically opposed views to mine are putting forward reasoned arguments. Read and blush, tabloid rubbish!
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Our future? Labour MP knocked on my door today!! Lived on this street in this house for 10 years now and this is the first MP to knock on my door! In a working class Northern? area. Last time I saw a Labour MP (and Tory MP) knock on my door was when I lived in suburbia before I ended up here. I guess suburban votes are more important. Just goes to show how desperate Labour are that they now feel they need to connect with the very areas they were supposed to be there for yet ignored throughout their Centrist period of Blair/Brown/Milliband.

Of course I was my usual gentlemanly self and gave her tales of love, hope and excitement about the future however when she asked if I would be voting Labour and I said No, she went on one for 2 whole minutes about the worthlessness of voting UKIP!................at which point I stated I will be voting Tory and closed the door on her.

I don;t know what is the better thought. That Labour have finally realised that UKIP is(was) their key problem. Or that a Labour person thinks that a Northern Council house dweller will only vote Labour or (what is seen as) a Labour alternative?

And I say was because once they crossed from Labour to UKIP the whole "won;t vote Tory/right" was breached.

And yes Lincoln is north as I am told whenever any of my relations or their friends from Winchester and surrounding areas hear my accent / dialect. "Are you from Manchester?" Erm No. Are you from France?
 
ImpSaint said:
Our future? Labour MP knocked on my door today!! Lived on this street in this house for 10 years now and this is the first MP to knock on my door! In a working class Northern? area. Last time I saw a Labour MP (and Tory MP) knock on my door was when I lived in suburbia before I ended up here. I guess suburban votes are more important. Just goes to show how desperate Labour are that they now feel they need to connect with the very areas they were supposed to be there for yet ignored throughout their Centrist period of Blair/Brown/Milliband.

Of course I was my usual gentlemanly self and gave her tales of love, hope and excitement about the future however when she asked if I would be voting Labour and I said No, she went on one for 2 whole minutes about the worthlessness of voting UKIP!................at which point I stated I will be voting Tory and closed the door on her.

I don;t know what is the better thought. That Labour have finally realised that UKIP is(was) their key problem. Or that a Labour person thinks that a Northern Council house dweller will only vote Labour or (what is seen as) a Labour alternative?

And I say was because once they crossed from Labour to UKIP the whole "won;t vote Tory/right" was breached.

And yes Lincoln is north as I am told whenever any of my relations or their friends from Winchester and surrounding areas hear my accent / dialect. "Are you from Manchester?" Erm No. Are you from France?
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Interesting post. The whole ex-Labour now UKIP thing is fascinating. The failure to "reach out", as they say, has cost Labour dearly. Sadly, I think they still haven't got a ****ing clue! Your post here exemplifies the problem. BTW, I do accept Lincoln is North!
 
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Missing Lambo said:
Interesting post. The whole ex-Labour now UKIP thing is fascinating. The failure to "reach out", as they say, has cost Labour dearly. Sadly, I think they still haven't got a ****ing clue! Your post here exemplifies the problem. BTW, I do accept Lincoln is North!
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When I lived in suburbia I had Labour, Tory and Lib Dem local politicians or their activists knocking on my door at every election. I was still packing eggs but I and my wife got a nice flat near where I had been brought up (5 years old onward) and paid the going rate which was affordable at the time. That rent was more than a 2 bed private house is on a council estate today (12 years later.)

And by that I mean my council rent now is £299 for a 2 bed house and a big garden. Back in 2004 that 2 bed flat with a garage space of garden was £450 a month!!!

Today was the first time a politician or her activists (this was the Labour prospective MP today as verified by the picture on the flyer she handed me) since I move into this house in December 2007.

It says a lot that little timeline and change in circumstance. They quite obviously wanted to target suburbia back then while the "poor" are now in play.
 
ImpSaint said:
Our future? Labour MP knocked on my door today!! Lived on this street in this house for 10 years now and this is the first MP to knock on my door! In a working class Northern? area. Last time I saw a Labour MP (and Tory MP) knock on my door was when I lived in suburbia before I ended up here. I guess suburban votes are more important. Just goes to show how desperate Labour are that they now feel they need to connect with the very areas they were supposed to be there for yet ignored throughout their Centrist period of Blair/Brown/Milliband.

Of course I was my usual gentlemanly self and gave her tales of love, hope and excitement about the future however when she asked if I would be voting Labour and I said No, she went on one for 2 whole minutes about the worthlessness of voting UKIP!................at which point I stated I will be voting Tory and closed the door on her.

I don;t know what is the better thought. That Labour have finally realised that UKIP is(was) their key problem. Or that a Labour person thinks that a Northern Council house dweller will only vote Labour or (what is seen as) a Labour alternative?

And I say was because once they crossed from Labour to UKIP the whole "won;t vote Tory/right" was breached.

And yes Lincoln is north as I am told whenever any of my relations or their friends from Winchester and surrounding areas hear my accent / dialect. "Are you from Manchester?" Erm No. Are you from France?
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Lincoln's not in the North! It's south of Liverpool! It's in the East Midlands!(just a long way from civilisation!) :)
 
This tells quite a lot. May has stalled where she should have pushed on while Corbyn has increased with his manifesto increasing his gain. Lib Dems are tanking because of Farron getting lots more airtime. UKIP are not worth bothering about anyway :)

Look at some of those Corbyn dots!! 35% is the highest one. Way above the "poll of polls" or the median line shown.

Also look how all the upturns/downturns co-incide with the announcement of the election. The day it was announced the Tories and Labour starting to rise and Lib Dems/UKIP/Greens start to fall!!

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SaintinSerbia said:
Lincoln's not in the North! It's south of Liverpool! It's in the East Midlands!(just a long way from civilisation!) :)
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North/South divide matey. No such thing as North / Midland / South divide.

We're level with Chesterfield and Chester. Most definitely north of Watford :) And I say Bus not Barse, Bath not Barth, Fook not Fark.
 
ImpSaint said:
North/South divide matey. No such thing as North / Midland / South divide.

We're level with Chesterfield and Chester. Most definitely north of Watford :) And I say Bus not Barse, Bath not Barth, Fook not Fark.
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just googled Lincoln cos never been there, it really is a long way from a big city isn't it?
 
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