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Vin
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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Vin
Can I add to this? Despite being very Welsh indeed, I'm still appalled at the ignorance of the Welsh, especially in small valley towns where EU investment has basically regenerated the towns, created recreation and employment opportunities and where there's very, very little immigration. Ignorance is rife, which was Remain's main problem...
They can have an issue, the question they need to ask themselves is can Scotland support itself free of England. would be interested to see any figures supporting the idea that scotland could be independent esp if oil prices stay low
If you're still holding on to sterling now then it's already too late.
Fortunately my bank account is not burdened with much of that.
When I moved to Mountain Ash (in the Cynon valley) in the 1990s it caused a bit of a stir. He can't be an Englishman living in the valleys surely? what's wrong with him? So the locals made up a story about me being a Norwegian school teacher - that made more sense. When I moved to Serbia in 2003 it caused a bit of a stir. He can't be an Englishman living in the Serbia surely? what's wrong with him? So the locals made up a story about me being an MI6 spy - that made more sense.
The irony is that whilst Nicola Sturgeon is one of those politicians who makes you want to hurl something at the TV, she is easily the most convincing of all the progressive politicians in the UK. She is far, far stronger than Corbyn and I just find myself wishing that we had someone with her drive and commitment to social justice at the head of the country. I think Brexit has given her a mandate but the problem is that it makes it more likely that we will have more Conservative governments. I find NS intensely irritating yet she habitually puts Theresa May to the sword whenever there is a confrontation as the PM is just made to look like someone who wants to subjugate the Scottish people as opposed to govern them.
I think that I would vote for SNP if I was Scottish and the fact that there made be short-term economic consequences is a worthwhile consequence if it ultimately means that you have more control of your destiny. However, the position taken by the SNP is divisive and there is another side of me that would like to see the back of them. For people who want a more progressive Left wing style of government, the decision of the SNP does seem selfish as it will ultimately serve to embolden reactionary right wing parties like UKIP and the Conservatives.
I think that I would vote for SNP if I was Scottish and the fact that there made be short-term economic consequences is a worthwhile consequence if it ultimately means that you have more control of your destiny. However, the position taken by the SNP is divisive and there is another side of me that would like to see the back of them. For people who want a more progressive Left wing style of government, the decision of the SNP does seem selfish as it will ultimately serve to embolden reactionary right wing parties like UKIP and the Conservatives.
It looks like Article 50 will be triggered at the end of the month so that they don't upset the EU (any more). The Netherlands elections are this week and next week is the 60th anniversary of the European Union.
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the Dutch elections are strange, very rarely does one party get a clear majority, there is normally weeks of scrambling and butt kissing until a coalition is formed. Geert Wilders will win the election but has a slim chance of forming a coalition
Just watched that and some of the others. Brilliant! The Mhairi Black portrayal is fantastic too.
I think you know my thoughts on the issue by now. [shakes head in despair at English sheep].
I would imagine that the Queen would like the UK to swan off with Germany and that would be that. Maybe throw in Russia in as well if any extant relatives can be found. Oh, and Holland possibly, if Queen Beatrix isn't too distant a relative. Mind you, she abdicated, so she's out.
It has always struck me as ironic that the Brexiteers wanted to leave the EU because it was deemed to be undemocratic whereas the Queen, as head of the UK, is unelected. These are seismic times and I would love it for the royal family to be the next institution to be removed and England become a republic so that we can at last be citizens and not subjects. We should get rid of the last vestiges of feudalism.
All this talk of ignorance.... I got a bit of a battering for suggesting that there was too much ignorance prior to the vote. People were offended that I could suggest a lot of the public could not be knowledgeable enough to take the decision. I included myself in that. I still do.
I still stand by my comments.
I still stand by my comments.
It isn't "so they don't annoy the EU anymore." It was always timed so that it would co-incide with the pressure the Netherlands election will put on the EU and if May wants to be really cocky she could pick the anniversary of the Treaty of Rome to deliver her letter.
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Notable that the people complaining about ignorance are the people who didn't get the result they wanted.
Aside from that it's just a non-argument. Our membership of the EU was confirmed by referendum so it makes sense that potentially leaving is also subject to one. Of course there is ignorance in the public but that's an inevitable part of democracy and the argument that you shouldn't have a vote because of that doesn't hold water for me. Many people who vote in elections are ignorant so let's do away with elections as well. Or perhaps you should have to pass some sort of test before you're allowed to vote? The ignorance argument just doesn't work.
Which isn't to say the referendum is beyond criticism was set up well. I have a certain sympathy for those who felt a super-majority should have been required (although it would have been politically very difficult for Cameron to justify) and the lack of clarity about would happen after the result was fairly ridiculous.
Aside from that it's just a non-argument. Our membership of the EU was confirmed by referendum so it makes sense that potentially leaving is also subject to one. Of course there is ignorance in the public but that's an inevitable part of democracy and the argument that you shouldn't have a vote because of that doesn't hold water for me. Many people who vote in elections are ignorant so let's do away with elections as well. Or perhaps you should have to pass some sort of test before you're allowed to vote? The ignorance argument just doesn't work.
Which isn't to say the referendum is beyond criticism was set up well. I have a certain sympathy for those who felt a super-majority should have been required (although it would have been politically very difficult for Cameron to justify) and the lack of clarity about would happen after the result was fairly ridiculous.
To be pedantic no-one in the UK* has been a British subject since 1983 when the British Nationality act of 1981 came into affect.
*unless they were born prior to 1949 in Ireland or "British subjects without citizenship" who are (to simplify) residents of a former colony that has become independent but they are not a citizen of that country.
So we are all British Citizens and not British subjects.
I wonder if Mrs May managed to keep a straight face, when she made the following comments?
Hours before MPs voted on the Brexit bill, Ms Sturgeon said she wanted the independence referendum to be re-run by spring 2019.
The move could spell the end of the UK and Mrs May claimed a “majority of Scottish people” did not want it.
She added: “Instead of playing politics with the future of our country, the Scottish Government should focus on delivering good government and public services for the people of Scotland. Politics is not a game.”
Unfortunately, politics is very much a game for too many MPs, especially those who are only in the job for what it will bring them, and not for what they can do for the country.
All three of the comments, in red, can be aimed at her own government and a half decent opposition would use this to garner support.
Unfortunately there is no opposition.
Hours before MPs voted on the Brexit bill, Ms Sturgeon said she wanted the independence referendum to be re-run by spring 2019.
The move could spell the end of the UK and Mrs May claimed a “majority of Scottish people” did not want it.
She added: “Instead of playing politics with the future of our country, the Scottish Government should focus on delivering good government and public services for the people of Scotland. Politics is not a game.”
Unfortunately, politics is very much a game for too many MPs, especially those who are only in the job for what it will bring them, and not for what they can do for the country.
All three of the comments, in red, can be aimed at her own government and a half decent opposition would use this to garner support.
Unfortunately there is no opposition.