Off Topic Politics Thread

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Beefy said:
We are never going to agree tbh. You try to look at the small things of a bigger picture. The bigger picture is the thing doing the damage. To me it doesn't matter who made the bill it matters who signed it and made it law. The person who is causing all this pain to many of it's own citizens. No politician is 100% good even Obama. But at least he didn't do this crap and this has only been Trump's first week!
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Not at all. I worry about the bigger picture but equally worry about how it is presented because once the MSM lburr the difference between the truth and the real problem then it makes the truth questionable. That is the whole problem that they are complaining about from things like Breitbart but here we are, a real problem yet we have intentionally misleading reports on it.

What I hear from you is "who cares, It's about Trump" and you seem quite happy to post anything on Trump/Brexit/Tories or anything else you don't agree with without being bothered whether it is true or not. Quite simply for you the ends justifies the means and who cares if it's true or not. Its more "evidence" and so you do exactly what you accuse the "fake news" of. You are quite happy to spread this stuff whether it is true or not and if someone questions an aspect of it then you dismiss it as a "small" thing.

While what seems to be happening in the US is quite obviously not right and unacceptable (yes I mean that sincerely) it is not a small thing to just pass off whether Trump actually decided on those 7 countries for whatever reason or not, and then to just accept news reports suggesting he did, ignoring the facts that they are named in previous acts of law enacted by the previous president.

And on this page and the last and the last there are cries of "fake news" which are ignored when it is "for the cause of those on the correct side."
 
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Archers Road said:
You are either missing, or deliberately ignoring, the blindingly obvious here Imps.

Obama is a mainstream politician with respect for the rule of law. In fact, he's a Law School graduate.

Trump is a deluded demagogue, with scant respect for anything.

Beats me how you can fail to see that.
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Case in point. I do see the difference. I am not talking about the person(s.) I am talking about this attitude of dismissing misleading news or made up news when it suits.

Fake news is OK if it supports the "good people's causes."
 
On the face of it a temporary ban on immigration/refugees from certain countries while the US security services decide what checks are required in future isn't that big a deal.

The main problem for me is that the order was rushed out and applied instantly - the full consequences weren't considered so you end up with the wrong people being detained. It's a good example of why I worry that (policies aside) Trump is not going to be able to do the job to any acceptable standard.

When you add in Trump's previous statements about muslims and Rudy Giuliani's statement that Trump basically asked how to legally ban muslims the whole thing gets slightly more sinister.

From what some American friends of mine have said the power of the President has grown greater in recent years (something people weren't worried enough about when Obama was issuing executive orders) but I'm still confident the US system will hold him back and frustrate him. I'm still amazed he got elected.
 
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ImpSaint said:
Not at all. I worry about the bigger picture but equally worry about how it is presented because once the MSM lburr the difference between the truth and the real problem then it makes the truth questionable. That is the whole problem that they are complaining about from things like Breitbart but here we are, a real problem yet we have intentionally misleading reports on it.

What I hear from you is "who cares, It's about Trump" and you seem quite happy to post anything on Trump/Brexit/Tories or anything else you don't agree with without being bothered whether it is true or not. Quite simply for you the ends justifies the means and who cares if it's true or not. Its more "evidence" and so you do exactly what you accuse the "fake news" of. You are quite happy to spread this stuff whether it is true or not and if someone questions an aspect of it then you dismiss it as a "small" thing.

While what seems to be happening in the US is quite obviously not right and unacceptable (yes I mean that sincerely) it is not a small thing to just pass off whether Trump actually decided on those 7 countries for whatever reason or not, and then to just accept news reports suggesting he did, ignoring the facts that they are named in previous acts of law enacted by the previous president.

And on this page and the last and the last there are cries of "fake news" which are ignored when it is "for the cause of those on the correct side."
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Yet you come of as a bigot as you support things like Breitbart. I post stuff that is happening, knowing full well what led up to it happening may not be 100% true.

Are the Tories treating the sick/disabled/poor like crap: yep

Are the Tories making the country worse with Brexit: well look at the pound. But we will see in the future.

Has Trump picked racist bigots LGBT+ hating people to be in his cabinet: yep

Is what Trump is doing hurting innocent people: yep

That is what I am getting at but you seem to want to paint everything as being fake news. While you defend and read sites that post stuff like this:

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And far far more

You seem to care about fake news. But you yourself follow many sites and post news from sites that post the most fake news.
 
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This maybe true but also maybe fake news...
 
I do not support Breitbart. Where do you get this nonsense from. I am exposed to some Breitbart stories because that is facebook for you and people share stuff. I am equally exposed to Guardian stories and even on here the Mail gets linked to when it is sports stories.

I agree and disagree on various things in terms of actual politics but you just seem to think if it agrees with you and it isn't right wing then its OK and doesn't matter if it is true.

You are making assumptions with no basis because I am right leaning and therefore fit your stereotype of being anti people and reading Breitbart.

I do not defend fake news and if you actually read my posts you would hear me constantly moaning about the spin and lies in all media as well as on TV. I moan about when they spin out things on Corbyn as well but at the moment it seems all out war on the right without ever understanding that they are guilty of exactly what they are trying to showing disgust for.

That is not me defending stuff like Breitbart nor is it me defending Trump. It is me complaining that for people like you, you do not care about the truth. You only care about stuff that agrees with you or supports your ideals and you couldn't care less if it is true or not. It attacks the right, It attacks Trump's dodgy policies so who cares, post away, spread the word.

Spectator is equally guilt of misleading sometimes and I am on there moaning about that too. They do have some uber moany left leaners writing articles on there as well as right leaning but it is the Spectator. A very respected publication. What makes you think they post "fake news" when the beloved tax dodging Guardian and the Independent (of old) seem to be guilt free.

As for the petition. 1.2 million is a lot of people but then the world is 7 billion and the metadata on twitter already shows the world is voting again.
 
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ImpSaint said:
I do not support Breitbart. Where do you get this nonsense from. I am exposed to some Breitbart stories because that is facebook for you and people share stuff. I am equally exposed to Guardian stories and even on here the Mail gets linked to when it is sports stories.

I agree and disagree on various things in terms of actual politics but you just seem to think if it agrees with you and it isn't right wing then its OK and doesn't matter if it is true.

You are making assumptions with no basis because I am right leaning and therefore fit your stereotype of being anti people and reading Breitbart.

I do not defend fake news and if you actually read my posts you would hear me constantly moaning about the spin and lies in all media as well as on TV. I moan about when they spin out things on Corbyn as well but at the moment it seems all out war on the right without ever understanding that they are guilty of exactly what they are trying to showing disgust for.

That is not me defending stuff like Breitbart nor is it me defending Trump. It is me complaining that for people like you, you do not care about the truth. You only care about stuff that agrees with you or supports your ideals and you couldn't care less if it is true or not. It attacks the right, It attacks Trump's dodgy policies so who cares, post away, spread the word.

Spectator is equally guilt of misleading sometimes and I am on there moaning about that too. They do have some uber moany left leaners writing articles on there as well as right leaning but it is the Spectator. A very respected publication. What makes you think they post "fake news" when the beloved tax dodging Guardian and the Independent (of old) seem to be guilt free.

As for the petition. 1.2 million is a lot of people but then the world is 7 billion and the metadata on twitter already shows the world is voting again.
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I post stuff that effects me or effects people around me (aka mainly Tories ****ting on the sick and disabled). Again if this was Labour doing it I would say the same, I am not close to any party, it is just the Tories are in power now and yes Corbyn is useless.

You are so concerned with the right being "attacked" that if any one posts one thing that could have 1% fake news out of 99% of the report you moan. Were as I would rather concentrate on the actual whole story ( like on Trump passing these laws and harming people) . You are obsessed with fake news and calling out what you think is fake news while missing why I am actually posting this stuff.
 
In other news Trump is insane

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Beefy said:
I post stuff that effects me or effects people around me (aka mainly Tories ****ting on the sick and disabled). Again if this was Labour doing it I would say the same, I am not close to any party, it is just the Tories are in power now and yes Corbyn is useless.

You are so concerned with the right being "attacked" that if any one posts one thing that could have 1% fake news out of 99% of the report you moan. Were as I would rather concentrate on the actual whole story ( like on Trump passing these laws and harming people) . You are obsessed with fake news and calling out what you think is fake news while missing why I am actually posting this stuff.
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No, I agree with you that he is wrong on this as many other things. I am questioning the media's attempts to "add" to the story devaluing the truth that is the action that is taking place.
 
priebus dismissed criticism of the rollout of Trump's action, claiming the order resulted in the detention of more than 100 people from the seven countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

"If you talk to people at customs and border patrol, they'll say you've got to rip off the band aid and move forward. And so, it wasn't chaos," Priebus said.

He added: "Perhaps some of these people should be detained further, and if they are folks who shouldn't be in this country, they're going to be detained. So apologies for nothing here."
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Reuters article

The United States will switch course on climate change and will pull the country out of a global pact to cut emissions, said Myron Ebell, who headed U.S. President Donald Trump's Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) transition team until his inauguration.

"(Trump) could do it by executive order tomorrow or he could do it as part of a larger package," Ebell told a conference in London on Monday. "I have no idea of the timing."
 
Trump’s 2020 campaign has kicked off – and Starbucks seem to be running it

"I am no fan of Donald Trump, but I can stand far enough back from his presidency to see that many of his critics are inadvertently already doing his re-election campaign for him. Today, Starbucks has reacted to Trump’s US travel ban on citizens of seven Middle Eastern and African countries by defiantly saying that it will go out and hire 10,000 refugees.

Can the coffee chain not see that this is exactly the sort of thing which attracts America’s white poor to Donald Trump: the suspicion that they are being overlooked in favour of cheap labour from abroad? In Starbucks’ case it isn’t just a suspicion – it has effectively confirmed that it wants to discriminate against American workers."


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/trumps-2020-campaign-kicked-off-starbucks-seem-running/
 
Puck said:
The main problem for me is that the order was rushed out and applied instantly - the full consequences weren't considered so you end up with the wrong people being detained. It's a good example of why I worry that (policies aside) Trump is not going to be able to do the job to any acceptable standard.
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No, this was deliberate. I don't think Trump himself ordered it, but some of Trump's inner circle (eg. Bannon and Miller) are truly scary people. They absolutely knew what would happen, they wanted this, and they kept people out of the loop or did the end-arounds to avoid people stopping them.
 
The Ides of March said:
Shall we add to the list a few DUP guys? I won't because I think Northern Ireland has come a long way since the Good Friday Agreement, and was one of the outstanding achievements that Blair pulled off during his time in Downing Street.
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So do I but all this furore over a head of state this time round is nowhere near the furore over the Chinese President or the near silence for Modi or when Middle Eastern heads of states come.
 
ImpSaint said:
So do I but all this furore over a head of state this time round is nowhere near the furore over the Chinese President or the near silence for Modi or when Middle Eastern heads of states come.
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I saw some of the questions to Boris this afternoon in the House of Commons. He confirmed that the seven countries involved where already picked out by Obama as needing special attention so as you said not chosen by Trump. There is a lot of misinformation out there at the moment which makes it difficult to know what the truth actually is. I'm not saying I agree with what Trump has done by the way.
 
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An executive order from President Donald Trump opening up discrimination against the LGBTQ community on the basis of religious belief is expected sometime this week, possibly as soon as today.

Several sources spoke with LGBTQ Nation on the condition of anonymity who have told us that the order will allow for discrimination in a number of areas, including employment, social services, business, and adoption.

From what we’ve heard, the executive order could be far-reaching, and could include: making taxpayer funds available for discrimination against LGBTQ people in social services; allow federally funded adoption agencies to discriminate against LGBTQ parents; eliminate non-discrimination protections in order to make it possible to fire federal employers and contractors based on their sexual orientation or gender identity; and allow federal employees to refuse to serve people based on the belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that gender is an immutable characteristic set at birth, which would impact a broad range of federal benefits.

The order is expected to come in the packaging of so-called “religious freedom,” which argues that someone’s religious beliefs should be enough to prevent them from having to provide goods and services to members of the LGBTQ community if doing so would conflict with said beliefs.

Source

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Moving on to the LGBT+ in his second week? The guy is disgusting.
 
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