Off Topic Politics Thread

[VocalMinority]

It is a ciurcular argument from you or whoever I was replying to. Arguing whether it is coming from the loan or the tax means nothing. If I pay my credit card from my wages but then use the credit card when the wages run out then you can argue it came from my wages if you want but to me I paid for it with the money I had then to borrow at the end of the month.

We're talking buisness not personal loans.. the two are different. Either way Paying off debts do with you're income is different than paying off a Wonga loan... with one youre fine. With the other you're debt spirals out of control and you're on the street.

The circular part was you said the government were buying a loan with your loan. Yeah that's servicing debt which is standard practice but doesn't tell you why they took the loan in the first place which is either to expand its income or bail out a bad budget in the case of the government Mostly the later in terms of our current economic problems.

There are reasons to take short term loans to cover running costs such as to cover short term drops in income that will recover where it would be more expensive/problematic to reduce and then build up your buisness again.

For the government tax is their income. By investing in wages they both create stable jobs and generate buisness which in turn provides more taxes, more income, for the government.

If they take a loan then the interest will likely offset the tax increase.

This is the reason it is beneficial for the government and the UK people to have the government pay tax credits up to the point it no longer proves profitable for the government to do so. The rest should be covered by minimum wage up to a liveable standard and paid for by the company. This maximises growth of jobs, wages and economy.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

It worries me that some of our politicians think like this too Chilcs. It’s not really a fun matter; our future and our children’s future is at stake. No fun in seeing that get botched at every twist and turn.

We’re in a mess. May and her actions have caused a lot of this but all I’m hearing at the moment is tactics to gain power or keep power from either side, rather than working together constructively to find a solution

I agree with you Fats, it’s just that with the current make up of Parliament there doesn’t seem to be a way out of this impasse. A general election might just put someone in power with a majority to carry something through regarding Brexit. Then, when it all goes tits up, in the time-honoured British tradition, we can vote them out again.

 

[VocalMinority]

C

Building a hospital keeps people more able to work.
Building a road allows people and goods to travel more efficiently.
Putting lights on a trunk road reduces accidents (more people working, less wasted money dealing with aftermath) as well as improving the flow of goods.

So, governments borrow in order to make the economy bigger. Which increases their income. Regardless of how its paid for.

And if the national debt interest is increased but by less than the increased tax take because of better infrastructure, etc, then it's not a problem.

This really is basic stuff that I understood when I was a Tory yet so many on the right fail to see it and believe cutting government expenditure is always a good thing.

Vin

I forgot to reply to this on the first pass.

Couldn't agree more.

People on the right often forget the economic benefits that tax and expenditures can have and people on the left often forget the social benefits buisness and economics can have.

For me it's not about one or the other but ensuring both are supported, balanced and work for the people.

 

[Missing Lambo]

C

I forgot to reply to this on the first pass.

Couldn't agree more.

People on the right often forget the economic benefits that tax and expenditures can have and people on the left often forget the social benefits buisness and economics can have.

For me it's not about one or the other but ensuring both are supported, balanced and work for the people.

Who the hell are you coming on here and being sensible?

 

[ImpSaint]

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[ImpSaint]

This is a bit clearer than the multiple viewpoints on the TV. Doubt BBC will reality check this detail in this way:

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[ChilcoSaint]

This is a bit clearer than the multiple viewpoints on the TV. Doubt BBC will reality check this detail in this way:

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I’m sure an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement vote will be tabled to cancel or extend Article 50 in preference to No Deal.

 

[ImpSaint]

And Paul Krugman (anti Brexit) has been tweeting a lot today on "project fear"

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[ImpSaint]

I’m sure an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement vote will be tabled to cancel or extend Article 50 in preference to No Deal.

I think that is pretty likely. The thread isn't about that though, it is about procedure. Government will have to table the amendment not be told what they must do.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I think that is pretty likely. The thread isn't about that though, it is about procedure. Government will have to table the amendment not be told what they must do.

The Speaker also has some say in what amendments are actually discussed.

 

[Onionman]

So take out a loan instead of handing the money +40%+ to those at the top on PFI/PPP


Build what roads? Or are we just talking roads in the rich part of the country?

You are missing the point that they did everything straight away. They chose to make favourable deals with their mates instead of thinking about the best financial decisions for the country. You can't just keep spending forever. And you should be trying to get value for money not just shoving as much as possible up the tree and hope that no-one questions it.

Your if is terrible. We are only just now borrowing less than the interest. And apparently we are in austerity. So in your terms (where we are in austerity) we should be spending a lot more and thus the deficit would be way more than we are and thus accruing more interest.

Last year deficit was reduced to £42bn.........(with everything cut) Interest was £48bn.

Do you ignore the tax take that reduced wages reduced? That the government then had to double up on replacing the difference with tax credits?

My point was general and clearly intended to be so. Your reply is specific nonsense. "Have you seen the roads?" - seriously? Do you deliberately miss points or do they just whoosh past like silent farts?

Vin

 

[Onionman]

Looks like fridge manufacturers should be welcoming Brexit. Trebles all round!

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Vin

 

[ChilcoSaint]

My point was general and clearly intended to be so. Your reply is specific nonsense. "Have you seen the roads?" - seriously? Do you deliberately miss points or do they just whoosh past like silent farts?

Vin

Agreed. Assuming there are no rich people north of Birmingham how come there are 10 times more motorways up there than in the south?

 

[ImpSaint]

Agreed. Assuming there are no rich people north of Birmingham how come there are 10 times more motorways up there than in the south?

Lincolnshire (Leave Central) has no motorways. Just potholed single lane roads everywhere. Not wanting the multi lane roads, just the potholes filling. Single lane roads put the frim folk off.

In other news. People vote campaign that never fails to bang on about lies on buses and collusion between campaigns, suddenly tweets out the same message on multiple "totally different" campaign groups, showing a new bus with the message "77% of us didn't want Brexit" which is quite obviously a lie.

 

[ImpSaint]

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[ChilcoSaint]

Lincolnshire (Leave Central) has no motorways. Just potholed single lane roads everywhere. Not wanting the multi lane roads, just the potholes filling. Single lane roads put the frim folk off.

In other news. People vote campaign that never fails to bang on about lies on buses and collusion between campaigns, suddenly tweets out the same message on multiple "totally different" campaign groups, showing a new bus with the message "77% of us didn't want Brexit" which is quite obviously a lie.

I haven’t met a single bus that voted for Brexit, so it’s clearly telling the truth.

 

[ImpSaint]

I haven’t met a single bus that voted for Brexit, so it’s clearly telling the truth.

I think he is meaning that only 23% of remainers have changed their mind and now want to leave

 

[VocalMinority]

Lincolnshire (Leave Central) has no motorways. Just potholed single lane roads everywhere. Not wanting the multi lane roads, just the potholes filling. Single lane roads put the frim folk off.

In other news. People vote campaign that never fails to bang on about lies on buses and collusion between campaigns, suddenly tweets out the same message on multiple "totally different" campaign groups, showing a new bus with the message "77% of us didn't want Brexit" which is quite obviously a lie.

77% didn't vote for Brexit which could be equated to not wanting it.(my quick maths came to 75) I'm sure there are some who wanted Brexit who couldn't vote but it's a far closer claim than the NHS bus. And if you start including Brexiteers who couldn't vote then you've got all the EU immigrants who would be eligible if they'd paid £1000 for citizenship which leave probably dont want you mention given how close the vote was and how much they like to exaggerate immigrant numbers.

 

[ImpSaint]

77% didn't vote for Brexit which could be equated to not wanting it.(my quick maths came to 75) I'm sure there are some who wanted Brexit who couldn't vote but it's a far closer claim than the NHS bus. And if you start including Brexiteers who couldn't vote then you've got all the EU immigrants who would be eligible if they'd paid £1000 for citizenship which leave probably dont want you mention given how close the vote was and how much they like to exaggerate immigrant numbers.

I would wage that there were more leavers that thought it wasn't worth it because remain would win than there were remainers that thought it was in the bag.

No you cannot extrapolate those who didn't vote FOR something to mean they didn't want it. That is a fabrication.

And the bus never said "lets spend £350m on the NHS instead" it said "lets fund our NHS instead." The "give the £350m to the NHS was on a poster early on in the campaign which was ditched very early on. It was never on the side of the bus.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I would wage that there were more leavers that thought it wasn't worth it because remain would win than there were remainers that thought it was in the bag.

No you cannot extrapolate those who didn't vote FOR something to mean they didn't want it. That is a fabrication.

And the bus never said "lets spend £350m on the NHS instead" it said "lets fund our NHS instead." The "give the £350m to the NHS was on a poster early on in the campaign which was ditched very early on. It was never on the side of the bus.

Your logic is faulty in the extreme. It is far more likely that people would be complacent about the status quo than for leaving. The Kippers would have wound every waif and stray up to turn out and vote, whereas the Remain campaign was a shambles.

And Boris talked about the £350m on TV at least once.