Off Topic Politics Thread

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Whiteley Saint said:
All people in the UK are considered rich compared to some others. I was in South Africa and saw real poverty there. The rich, as referred to by our driver, lived in the normal houses which the majority of people on this thread live in over here. The people who lived in tin huts and worked in the mines were well off according to him. People were seen in the middle of nowhere walking along the road - no cars for them. I felt embarrassed to be so well off and to take it for granted. I have always said since then that everyone should go and see some of these countries and then maybe we will count our blessings.

I do not begrudge people who run the country being well off - not just Tories by the way but Labour too - but what I do find outrageous is that a footballer can earn more in 1 week than the Prime Minister does in 1 year.

I like to think I take each individual for who they are and not what they do or don't have so it's a shame that some seem to have prejudices which they just can't let go.
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I wouldn't really call a person that only eats twice a week rich. This lady cuts back on food so she can feed her son. Her putting a little cheese on her sons beans on toast is actually seen as a luxury for her. How crazy is that? Her son goes to school soon and she can't even afford a second hand uniform. She says that the school giving her son a free meal each day will help her to maybe feeding herself 4 times a week. So messed up that we have that kind of poverty in this country.

My point is you can't really compare poverty in one country to another. Poverty is poverty, it's just different depending where you live.
 
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fatletiss said:
Does that mean that Vin (who has told us he is a Tory must be Rich? I don't agree with that part of your post because it is a sweeping statement as most political posts are.

My Dad votes UKIP - I assume most people think he is a racist bastard. My Jamaican wife doesn't think he is.

I really don't like politics. Here we have two of the posters that I really enjoy and respect a lot of their views in our football forum, drawing lines in the sand. Political lines.
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Racist bastard...
 
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I'm not remotely interested in how well off or otherwise people on this forum are - it's none of my bloody business; unless they are running for public office, in which case I'll vote for the one I consider the most likely to represent the interests of the many, not the few.

London will elect a new mayor next week; I'll be voting for the bus driver's son rather than the Old Etonian billionaire, but that's because of his policies, not because of his background. I'm not totally against being governed by toffs - I just don't think it's worked out all that well so far.
 
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Beefy said:
I wouldn't really call a person that only eats twice a week rich. This lady cuts back on food so she can feed her son. Her putting a little cheese on her sons beans on toast is actually seen as a luxury for her. How crazy is that? Her son goes to school soon and she can't even afford a second hand uniform. She says that the school giving her son a free meal each day will help her to maybe feeding herself 4 times a week. So messed up that we have that kind of poverty in this country.

My point is you can't really compare poverty in one country to another. Poverty is poverty, it's just different depending where you live.
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I would say there are different levels of poverty in the world which perhaps is what you mean as well. :)
 
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Whiteley Saint said:
I would say there are different levels of poverty in the world which perhaps is what you mean as well. :)
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Didn't come of that way. Unless I read it wrong:emoticon-0110-tongu . To me poverty is poverty.

I would even say one of Children in Need or Sports relief etc should just be 100% fundraising for the UK.
 
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One thing I have noticed in the past few years as I walk through the City Centre is just how many homeless people there are sleeping on the streets now and anyone who says that there is no real poverty in the inner cities of the UK is living in cloud cuckooland. As Beefy says any poverty is bad and Governments should be trying to address the issue rather than focussing on tax breaks for the well off.
I'm disappointed that the poverty gap actually grew under New Labour a supposedly socially just party., therefore i'm disillusioned with Westminster politics in general.
I describe myself as more of a Humanist these days.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
What Piebacca is doing is what my old maths teacher used to call reductio ad absurdam. By taking an argument to a ridiculous extreme, you try to disprove it. Unfortunately he can't disprove the fact that the NHS, despite being reorganised by every government since its creation, still exists by the efforts of the people who work for it, despite what successive governments, not just the Tories, tried to do to it.
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Um, that wasn't what I was doing at all. I mostly agree with you. Every government fiddles around with the NHS. I just object to the fact that the Conservatives are the only ones that ever seem to get trash talked about it.
 
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fatletiss said:
Does that mean that Vin (who has told us he is a Tory must be Rich? I don't agree with that part of your post because it is a sweeping statement as most political posts are.

My Dad votes UKIP - I assume most people think he is a racist bastard. My Jamaican wife doesn't think he is.

I really don't like politics. Here we have two of the posters that I really enjoy and respect a lot of their views in our football forum, drawing lines in the sand. Political lines.
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I'm not drawing any lines in the sand. The very opposite. I want people to avoid characterisations of any group of people because of their political affiliation. You wouldn't assume that "all black people are always (insert any statement here)" and I wouldn't expect anyone to say that "all Labour/Tory/Green politician are always (insert any statement here)" either. Unfortunately that kind of language has become acceptable, it poisons reasoned debate and it turns political discussion into name-calling.

Vin
 
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Saints_Alive said:
One thing I have noticed in the past few years as I walk through the City Centre is just how many homeless people there are sleeping on the streets now and anyone who says that there is no real poverty in the inner cities of the UK is living in cloud cuckooland. As Beefy says any poverty is bad and Governments should be trying to address the issue rather than focussing on tax breaks for the well off.
I'm disappointed that the poverty gap actually grew under New Labour a supposedly socially just party., therefore i'm disillusioned with Westminster politics in general.
I describe myself as more of a Humanist these days.
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And I would agree - I read today that the number of working age adults who pay no income tax has risen from 34% to 44% since 2007. These figures are from a report by the Institute of Fiscal Studies (no doubt a Tory mouthpiece - but, in my mind, a professional, apolitical body) - at the same time the proportion of tax paid by the richest 1% has risen from 24% to 27% - so, somewhere, some people are paying more and others are not paying so much.
Now, I know there are lies, damned lies and then statistics, so I am not blind to the issue of poverty - I am a Humanist and no country with the wealth of ours should have people living on the streets or with so little they starve themselves to feed their children. However, I am also a pragmatist and there are people fiddling the system so the real needy sometimes get missed.
I would vote for any government that could fix this and fix the NHS - sadly, though, I believe neither party are capable and spend too much time name-calling .......
 
Piebacca said:
Um, that wasn't what I was doing at all. I mostly agree with you. Every government fiddles around with the NHS. I just object to the fact that the Conservatives are the only ones that ever seem to get trash talked about it.
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We do agree then, good.
 
Moving on from tax for a moment ... today Hillsborough, tomorrow Orgreave? It's far more politically sensitive, and I for one can't wait to see a Tory Prime Minister apologise for the attacks Thatcher orchestrated against the miners. Just a thought.
 
Missing Lambo said:
Moving on from tax for a moment ... today Hillsborough, tomorrow Orgreave? It's far more politically sensitive, and I for one can't wait to see a Tory Prime Minister apologise for the attacks Thatcher orchestrated against the miners. Just a thought.
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Sorry, but why? I don't understand people apologising for other people's actions from years ago. If my grandad had done something appalling, I would not apologise for him unless I'm present there for a racist comment or something of that ilk. It sets a precedent of when do you stop apologising for anything that has ever taken place. I'm sorry to all Muslims for our barbaric ancestors mauling you to control the holy land?
 
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SaintsForTheWin said:
Sorry, but why? I don't understand people apologising for other people's actions from years ago. If my grandad had done something appalling, I would not apologise for him unless I'm present there for a racist comment or something of that ilk. It sets a precedent of when do you stop apologising for anything that has ever taken place. I'm sorry to all Muslims for our barbaric ancestors mauling you to control the holy land?
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OK, so let's be clear.

Why have we just investigated Hillsborough? Of course it's the deaths, but more than that it's the cover up that followed.

Why is Blair criticised for "sexing up" documents to justify his war in Iraq?

Why is the fact that Thatcher lied about the Begrano significant?

Ultimately we surely want our authorities to be honest. I can cope with their cock-ups. Would another police officer have ordered the opening of that gate at Hillsborough? Probably. But once the tragedy unfolded, then being honest might have been good.

Thatcher and her crowd lied about Orgreave. That is why we should be investigating. I don't want a ****ing apology. I wholly agree that these apologies for the behaviour of the Empire are nonsense. What I do want is for the government and the authorities to be held to account when they lie to us. Simple.
 
Big bullet in the foot by Labour. A week(?) before the local elections.

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