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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Beef

    Beef Well-Known Member

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    Mine was a piss taking reply with a dig at the media for being dodgy. Nothing defensive at all. :emoticon-0110-tongu

    Corbyn ****ed up by forgetting a number, but corrected himself. Nothing like the crazy stuff the press are saying. I would love it if the press treated both the same and then the partied didn't take us as mugs.
     
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  2. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough - I missed that. I read them backwards.
     
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  3. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    I've seen the latest percentages in my constituency of Romsey & Southampton North, and it looks like I have to vote Liberal after all. They're in with a half decent chance of unseating Caroline Nokes, so I'd better go that route. Please Labour & Liberal, if you see that you can make a coalition between you this time please don't be put off with a Labour leader saying No the first time. Stick around until he has time to think about it.
     
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  4. Beef

    Beef Well-Known Member

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    I can't get defensive over anything apart from abuse, racism etc. Who random people vote for is no concern of mine, too many people get crazy over politics. Like I said before I am only calling out the Tories because they are running the country now. Austerity is destroying way too many lives for my liking. If Labour/Dems were doing the same I would call them out too. I'm not a one party guy, I support the party I see as trying to help the poor, sick and disabled the most.
     
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    Last edited: May 30, 2017
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  5. Puck

    Puck Well-Known Member

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    Well I have to say I agree with your basic point. Of course, this thread probably isn't going to help many people make up their minds and most on here didn't need to make their mind up. The majority of posters on this thread knew how they were going to vote as soon as the election was called and the majority of those posters are Labour supporters (or at least left-leaning). There was a reasonable amount of criticism of Theresa May's interview this week and a certain amount of gloating when the other guy (Fallon?) screwed up over the Boris quote but very little said about Corbyn.

    When it comes down to it, these interviews - and the debates when they happened - are somewhat interesting if you're into politics but not that important (at least not for me) because I don't think many people watch them or take that much interest when they do. The interviewees are usually more concerned with not screwing up than with saying anything significant.

    Being able to interview well also doesn't mean you'd be a good prime minister. I won't be voting for Corbyn but I have no interest in criticising him for today because I think it's ridiculous to expect him to retain every statistic or piece of information in his head. When I'm at work I often have to tell people I'll need to check a figure or the exact wording of a rule or piece of legislation. It's perfectly normal. Similarly, I think it's somewhat silly to criticise Fallon (if it was him) for not recognising that the quote read out to him was something Boris Johnson had written however many years ago. Your response is a perfect demonstration that this is exactly the sort of petty point scoring that puts people off.
     
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  6. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    Indeed, I am not dogmatically anti-conservative myself. But I don't see them trying to help the poor, sick and disabled anything like as much as is required. However, the neglect of those groups is such that it'll take an awful lot of effort to get things turned round again, Twas ever thus. Hey, if I had my world I'd be voting for the Green Party. Then again, in my world there would be Proportional Representation, so that everyone's vote really counted for something, and the individual could actually feel represented in Parliament. But apparently, PR doesn't lead to strong government. That's the biggest political lie ever suggested. What it really means is that MPs have to find a way, work harder and work together, across the party spectrum.
     
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  7. Paddy Podped

    Paddy Podped Well-Known Member

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    What PR also means is that, in general, the current party in power at any given time would not have as great a majority compared with first-past-the-post. So no party will ever vote for it.

    Unfortunately we missed our chance to have any likelihood of a change when the AV vote came and went. Largely (imo) due to a massively disproportionate level of media coverage of it compared ot other referendums (e.g. Scottish, Brexit etc.)
     
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  8. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    Lol. It would have Tory in single figures % wise with most who will vote Tory preferring not to be "outed."
     
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  9. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    It was a reasonable attempt by Liberals to obtain some power [and fairness incidentally] and was part of their coalition agreement. The Tories and the Tory Press laughed it away, which is a shame. AV isn't the best version of PR, but it was a start.
     
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  10. Paddy Podped

    Paddy Podped Well-Known Member

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    Agree it's not the best, but better than FPTP I'd say.

    A shame the way it was covered nationally, from memory it was generally advertised as 'this really complicated way of doing things.....oh it's so confusing and makes little difference'.
     
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  11. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    Virtually spot on there with your analysis of Corbyn/McDonnell and their circle. Remember I said a long long time ago that the Unions might be Pro EU at the moment but will turn anti-EU once they are sure the New Labour faction won't be regaining control. Corbyn and McDonnell are most definitely anti-EU no matter what they say now.

    And both Corbyn and May "announced" they were for remain but then both took a back seat from the campaigns because they are both Eurosceptics.
     
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  12. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    Theresa May "met" him in November on a 3 day visit to India!!!
     
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  13. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I liked his answer. He didn't reel off a made up number like Abbott. He didn't just give a different answer to the question like May does. He said "I would like to give you accurate figures" rather than guesswork which I thought was quite honest.

    The only problem is that all these interviews today were setup by Corbyn's team for him to promote this particular policy and that is why there is such a fuss. HE went on to promote a single policy which when asked how much it would cost he couldn't answer. It wasn't just an interview to go over anything. It was specifically setup to promote this new policy.

    If you are selling something, best to know all the facts about the product. Maybe next time I "win" a free Kirby cleaned room the chap will forget how much the price is and I can offer him a tenner for it.
     
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  14. TheSecondStain

    TheSecondStain Needs an early night

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    Oh, way, way better than FPTP. Off the top of my head I can't think of a worse democratic electoral voting system than FPTP. I suppose 'rotten boroughs' were worse, but they went out century or two ago and they just made FPTP even more lopsided. ;)
    The old argument against purer forms of PR is that they don't produce clear strong covernment.. That's not true. What they tend to produce is coalitions**. But coalitions from all parties, so MPs have to work together. It tends to produce a much fairer and representative form of government.

    **Note, not the two party coalition that we had a couple or so years ago.
     
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  15. Saints_Alive

    Saints_Alive Well-Known Member

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    We could be heading back to 2010....

    please log in to view this image
     
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  16. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    This being a poll from YouGov and seeing Peter Kellner lost for words and confused in 2015 and twice in 2016 I am looking at it with a pinch of salt.

    This being the YouGov who's polls had a hung parliament by a margin) in 2015 plus us to stay in the EU and Clinton to win the election easily.

    I also find it hard to believe their chap saying they tried this methodology before the EU referendum yet on the night Peter Kellner made no mention of this "other polling."

    And if it is accurate then The Tories will either be a minority government or it will be another election. Labour and the others can't get enough to form a coalition on those numbers.

    My Money is on the Tories hitting about 340. Hardly any increase and May walking the tightrope of doom within the party.
     
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  17. Beef

    Beef Well-Known Member

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    If the Tories get majority can we get Cameron back to negotiate with the EU?
     
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  18. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Absolutely no coincidence there. You get a Tory government, you get an increase in homelessness. Not under Harold Macmillan and Ted Heath because they were both committed to the postwar social consensus that considered a decent place to live and a job that paid enough to live on to be fundamental human rights.

    But after Margaret Thatcher tore up that consensus homelessness, and child poverty increased throughout her governments, were tackled effectively under Labour between 1997 - 2010, and are both on the rise again now. This is no accident.

    I step over homeless people every day on my way in to work at Finsbury Park. That didn't happen 8 years ago. This is no accident; this is a direct result of cuts in social care funding.
     
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  19. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    The fact that poverty is largely hidden nowadays in comparison to say, the 1930s, does not mean it doesn't exist.

    Over a million 3 day emergency supplies were given out by food banks in 2016/17. That sounds like poverty to me - what term would you prefer to talk of for people who, in the world's 5th largest economy, can't afford to feed themselves or their families?
     
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  20. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Why is that, do you think?
     
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