My best mate growing up was a Jehovah's Witness. one of the nicest lads you'll ever meet. His parents never seemed too keen on me though, think they thought i was a bad influence. Probably true to be fair, i even got him to swear once.
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I kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses. They're so happy that people will engage with them on the doorstep, rather than having the door slammed in their faces. If I've got the time I'll lean against my door frame and play tennis on why there is no deity/why there is a deity; what's the latest date on the World ending, etc... In the end I tell them I'm a Humanist and they wish me good day. Nice. I'd invite them in but I don't want to. 
I've given up on trying to understand what Trumps foreign policy is. It just just seems to change on his whims and fancies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39523654
US launches missiles at Syrian government air base. Here we go.......
US launches missiles at Syrian government air base. Here we go.......
It would seem that killing children with normal bombs is perfectly acceptable, but poison...?
Nothing at all to do with Trump's popularity ratings being lower than any incoming president ever since Gallup has been asking the question.
Vin
Nothing at all to do with Trump's popularity ratings being lower than any incoming president ever since Gallup has been asking the question.
Vin
And a great way of deflecting the Russian issue of the elections which just doesn't seem to be going away ....
As my American friends say "we now have a truly embarrassing president"
I kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses. They're so happy that people will engage with them on the doorstep, rather than having the door slammed in their faces. If I've got the time I'll lean against my door frame and play tennis on why there is no deity/why there is a deity; what's the latest date on the World ending, etc... In the end I tell them I'm a Humanist and they wish me good day. Nice. I'd invite them in but I don't want to.
Not deliberately trying to link two stories here, but we are all aware that JW disciples were sent to Auschwitz, aren't we? I think that they are a bunch of nutters, but perfectly harmless. UKIP on the other hand ....
I worked with a number of them in the US and they were delightful. Quite happy to share a beer and chat generally. Not once did they attempt to discuss religion. I just had to remember that they didn't celebrate birthdays and obvious holidays .......
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/18/jehovahs-witness-dies-refuse-blood-transfusion
Child refuses potentially life-saving treatment as a direct result of JW indoctrination. They may be "nice" people but, as an organisation, JWs brainwashed Joshua into refusing efforts that might have saved his life, sure as eggs are eggs.
And for reference, so you realise how barking mad they are, the verses that make JWs ban blood transfusions are:
"But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it." Genesis 9:4
"‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood. Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.”" Leviticus 17:10-14
Of course the bible doesn't mention transfusions: it's the work of illiterate bronze-age sheepherders. It takes a degree of madness to turn those verses into a reason to die.
Vin
Child refuses potentially life-saving treatment as a direct result of JW indoctrination. They may be "nice" people but, as an organisation, JWs brainwashed Joshua into refusing efforts that might have saved his life, sure as eggs are eggs.
And for reference, so you realise how barking mad they are, the verses that make JWs ban blood transfusions are:
"But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it." Genesis 9:4
"‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood. Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.”" Leviticus 17:10-14
Of course the bible doesn't mention transfusions: it's the work of illiterate bronze-age sheepherders. It takes a degree of madness to turn those verses into a reason to die.
Vin
Very good point, Vin. I'd forgotten the blood transfusion thing. Naturally, that subject never came up in our chats.
But isn't that the same about all religious texts? They're passed down via word of mouth and interpreted to mean whatever people want them to believe. That's why I don't believe any religious texts .....
Quite true. My reference to their being "harmless" was a response to state sponsored persecution. I don't see them undermining governments. What their mad faith does to their own is another matter, and raises the question of allowing free will. Should we sanction honour killings among certain sub-cultures of Islamic belief? Should we turn a blind eye to forced marriages in which young women of British descent are effectively traded? By the same token, should the state intervene when a mad religious cult wants to allow its children to die?
Interesting, and I don't claim to know any answers. However, I would hold that locking people up purely on the grounds that they are members of a bizarre religious cult is not justified. We should all take care. Today the Jehovah's Witnesses, tomorrow the trade union leaders to parody a famous quote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
To my flawed knowledge, all religions call for some particular suffering or sacrifice from the believer.
I agree with both of you. My comment about "Anything that stops them knocking on my door" was tongue-in-cheek. I actually enjoy discussions with them. They always end up frustrated enough that they ask me something along the lines of "why are you trying to change my mind?" to which I reply "you started it."
And, unequivocally, I condemn anyone being locked up for what they believe. By all means lock people up for what they do if it breaks laws but I'm entirely on your side. Lest I be even remotely misunderstood, I condemn totally what the Russians are doing on this matter (and seemingly on pretty much everything they do these days!).
Vin
To be fair if you believed in that verse, you clearly shouldn't take a blood transfusion. would take some serious lawyering for that not to be the case and i don't think thats what religion is about.
Dying for your beliefs is one of the most difficult subjects because it can be incredibly noble or it can turn you into a suicide bomber and it all depends on perspective.
it sounds from that verse like they believe the blood contains the spirit/soul? and if thats the case i can totally see why they would think that they should die rather than consume somebody's soul (a transfusion is consuming). unfortunately that doesn't make it correct.
I don't know what the answer is.
I used to work with a woman who was an avowed Jehovah's Witness and she ended up being made Clinical Manager of the entire Pathology Department. This, of course, included the Blood Transfusion Department, and I never could get her to see any contradiction between her faith and her professional practice.
The verbs are clear. "Eating" is what's forbidden. But it's equally likely they meant something entirely different.
The method is to take the words of an oral creation myth, write it down in Hebrew, copy several times, translate it into Greek, repeatedly copy it, translate it again into Latin, repeatedly copy it again then just for fun translate it into English (and retranslate into many different versions - 22 English versions on biblehub alone, just to maximise confusion) . Then all you have to do is take the words you're left with and read into them whatever you want. And simplify it by saying all of them are literally the word of god.
BTW, this blood madness wasn't JW doctrine when JW was invented in 1870. No, this madness started in about 1945.
Vin