Off Topic Politics Thread

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Whiteley Saint said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39415631

Trump is back with the executive orders. This one is to remove Obama-era rules aimed at curbing climate change. He's going back in time to coal. Who cares about the environment anyway? :(
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Like Brexit, It will probably hit those who voted for Trump the worst as air quality in certain areas will worsen and they won't be able to afford the healthcare once amendments are made.
 
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OddRiverOakWizards said:
Like Brexit, It will probably hit those who voted for Trump the worst as air quality in certain areas will worsen and they won't be able to afford the healthcare once amendments are made.
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This is very true, but ultimately Trump's idiocy will affect every human, mammal, bird, fish, tree, plant, insect, and bacteria on the planet. The man is a threat to the continuance of life on Earth and needs to be removed from office by whatever means as soon as possible.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
This is very true, but ultimately Trump's idiocy will affect every human, mammal, bird, fish, tree, plant, insect, and bacteria on the planet. The man is a threat to the continuance of life on Earth and needs to be removed from office by whatever means as soon as possible.
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I am gutted by the decision but we cannot say Trump is the only protagonist here, look at how much we pay in air quality fines each year, many of London's big roads go over their yearly emission limits within January and it is cheaper to pay than do something about it. When politicians or companies or even most people come to a choice between growth and jobs or the environment it is nearly always the first that prevail over the environment :(.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
This is very true, but ultimately Trump's idiocy will affect every human, mammal, bird, fish, tree, plant, insect, and bacteria on the planet. The man is a threat to the continuance of life on Earth and needs to be removed from office by whatever means as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Indeed. One of the the fundamental things one learns about atmospheric pollution, and then long term pollution causing climate change, is that pollution knows no political or national boundaries. By one stroke of the pen he has degraded life by a small amount. I suppose one could call it democratic, but is it the right thing to do.? Ultimately no, when just around the corner are cheap clean energy technologies that are going to make him go back on his word to coal miners pretty damn quick. And being the 'businessman' he is before the politician, the bottom dollar, so to speak, will be the cheapest price to the consumer, and he'll do an about turn so quickly his hair will will stay in the same position. Maybe it's a last hurrah and he knows it. But I doubt it.
 
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OddRiverOakWizards said:
I am gutted by the decision but we cannot say Trump is the only protagonist here, look at how much we pay in air quality fines each year, many of London's big roads go over their yearly emission limits within January and it is cheaper to pay than do something about it. When politicians or companies or even most people come to a choice between growth and jobs or the environment it is nearly always the first that prevail over the environment :(.
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Oh I absolutely agree, but if Trump pulls the USA out of the climate change agreements altogether that gives the green light to China, Russia, and all the other major polluters to ignore the agreements as well. We all might as well start looking for a nice clean planet to live on, 'cos this one's done for, ruined by greed.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
Oh I absolutely agree, but if Trump pulls the USA out of the climate change agreements altogether that gives the green light to China, Russia, and all the other major polluters to ignore the agreements as well. We all might as well start looking for a nice clean planet to live on, 'cos this one's done for, ruined by greed.
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Well, the planet will be fine, because it doesn't give a ****, and will just adjust climatically. But for humans it's going to get a damn sight dodgier.
 
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Whiteley Saint said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39415631

Trump is back with the executive orders. This one is to remove Obama-era rules aimed at curbing climate change. He's going back in time to coal. Who cares about the environment anyway? :(
Click to expand...

And the greatest irony is, the mining jobs still aren't coming back. There'll be a boom in strip mining and all the environmental damage that causes, but there'll be no surge in well paid unionised jobs - mechanisation has taken a lot of those away for ever.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
Oh I absolutely agree, but if Trump pulls the USA out of the climate change agreements altogether that gives the green light to China, Russia, and all the other major polluters to ignore the agreements as well. We all might as well start looking for a nice clean planet to live on, 'cos this one's done for, ruined by greed.
Click to expand...

TheSecondStain said:
Indeed. One of the the fundamental things one learns about atmospheric pollution, and then long term pollution causing climate change, is that pollution knows no political or national boundaries. By one stroke of the pen he has degraded life by a small amount. I suppose one could call it democratic, but is it the right thing to do.? Ultimately no, when just around the corner are cheap clean energy technologies that are going to make him go back on his word to coal miners pretty damn quick. And being the 'businessman' he is before the politician, the bottom dollar, so to speak, will be the cheapest price to the consumer, and he'll do an about turn so quickly his hair will will stay in the same position. Maybe it's a last hurrah and he knows it. But I doubt it.
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I don't think Trump is so different from many politicians around the globe on this topic. All of the targets are set massively long-term as it is effectively passing the buck to future politicians and it is difficult to predict if the targets will be met.

In the UK we subsidised north sea gas and oil while effectively taxing renewables last year, which was completely short-termist and caused by vested interests as wind-power had effectively become as cheap per unit of power. One can only assume this was the influence of people with money and influence as their are plenty of old energy tycoons with vested interests sat firmly in Parliament.
 
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Archers Road said:
And the greatest irony is, the mining jobs still aren't coming back. There'll be a boom in strip mining and all the environmental damage that causes, but there'll be no surge in well paid unionised jobs - mechanisation has taken a lot of those away for ever.
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Probably won't even be a boom in strip-mining. Coal just isn't economically viable anymore; even Trump's most rabid fans in the industry admit it:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/27/us-coal-industry-clean-power-plan-donald-trump

Beyond that, coal mining was never a big employer nationally in the US. It was a huge player in a handful of states, and it certainly brought in lots of cash for the large companies involved, but the decline in jobs noted in that article is about 150,000 over 40+ years...for the sake of comparison, the US adds more than 200,000 jobs a month. Wind power alone now employs about as many people as coal, and the clean energy industry that Trump et al want to marginalize employs several times more people than the fossil fuel industry they love so much:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/01/us-clean-energy-jobs-surpass-fossil-fuel-jobs-5-1/


This is not and has never been about jobs. It's about propping up a small number of moneyed interests that happen to be major donors to the Republican Party.
 
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