My view, for what it’s worth, is that Starmer is chasing the Reform voters and is a complete **** for doing so. This is the equivalent of War Criminal Blair’s lying about Iraq and Starmer should resign as Prime Minister immediately. He is a disgrace.
It's in no way equivalent, not even close. Whatever your views on immigration, it's pretty clear that public opinion is in favour of tighter controls. The government's failure to call out Israel for war crimes is another matter.
Emphatically not. His speech yesterday has been compared to Enoch Powell’s “Rivers of Blood” speech in 1968. Overt racism had been driven underground in the years since then, until crypto-fascists like Farage started using racist stereotypes and language in the run-up to the Brexit referendum. His inflammatory imagery, such as the Breaking Point poster, encouraged far-right lunatics like Thomas Mair, who murdered Starmer’s colleague Jo Cox for her anti-racist campaigning. Overt racism and dog whistle politics has become the legitimised norm nowadays, with Reform UK being the spearhead of the lurch towards authoritarianism, and Starmer has panicked and bought into it. Starmer has betrayed the memory of Jo Cox and has no place in the leadership of the Labour Party.
I'm genuinely staggered by what Starmer is doing. I'm not a Labour fan by any means but he's making a mockery of everything they stand for. He said in his victory speech after the GE that he wanted to form a government that people could trust (or words to that effect). Turns out he's just another lying **** in a suit.
Was thinking about this recently. IRA obviously perpetrated some awful atrocities on these Islands. If you agree with what Israel are doing at the moment then you would have surely been looking for the British army at that time to obliterate West Belfast and starve the people of the Bogside in Derry, killing, maiming the children etc driving them out and moving people from Norfolk in saying it's their land anyway. Other nations afraid to reign Britain for fear of upsetting them. Sounds a bit mad and barbaric doesn't it? in. Crazy stuff but it's basically what the Israelis are doing. Obviously there's more at play but really isn't a million miles off the truth
Hmm… not seen his speech so assumed you were being sarcastic. What exactly did he say that has given this impression? I am no Starmer fan, but I guess I see him as a moderate. It surprises me if he was buying into the racist dogwhistles. We do have to remember that the British people overwhelmingly want to bring immigration down. I don’t think Labour has a chance of re-election without achieving that.
Immigration is only an issue with the British people because of the racist politicians and the overwhelming majority of the press and media who parrot their views. What is needed is a positive campaign reminding people that immigration has always been a massive benefit to this country. I am puzzled that the far right have shown no pleasure in the recent news that net migration has dropped dramatically in the last year. Starmer’s rhetoric about “islands of strangers” buys into their wish to reduce immigration still further. With birth rates falling, this is not a sustainable long term approach.
Immigration is a global issue. The West needs to correct the causes in order to fix the consequences. Reform are shameful but i feel they are being set up for a fall. Just think that the press are waiting to take him down. Farage just has no credibility. He is a comic book politician. Reform will be nothing after the election abd Farage will lose his seat.
I don't think what Starmer said is racist at all. Is surprising to hear it from a labour leader though and shows how much of an impact Reform are having.
I can’t stand Starmer. Yes he has implemented some decent policies since becoming PM but he has also introduced some absolute dog **** ideas that are anti poor people, anti disabled people and now anti immigrant. I stopped trusting him when he ditched all 10 policies he said he would stand by, when seeking the party leadership. He is an inveterate liar, which is why I don’t think he believes what he said about immigration but said it, as you rightly point out, to appeal to Reform voters. The problem is that most people will see his words as empty rhetoric and won’t listen to him, whereas they will continue to listen to Farage’s views on immigration because they know he is a bigot and a racist and that he believes every word he utters on the topic. I saw on Facebook, yesterday, a post indicating that by next year a new party might evolve from the current Labour Party, one lead by more left leaning MPs, who still believe in the old principles of the Labour Party. Wouldn’t be a bad time to start up as they would have 3+ years to set out their stall before the next election. The Labour Party splitting is something I have previously predicted, because of Starmer, but it appears to be happening sooner than I expected, if what I read is factual.
The labour party splitting at this point would probably and up with reform winning the next election.
Sad but true. But the way to stop Reform winning the next election isn’t to steal their policies, but to meet them head on and show they’re wrong about everything. It’s no excuse to say “the people want action on immigration”, because “the people” have been misled on this issue by the same actors who misled them about leaving the EU. What is required is leadership to change public opinion away from this dangerous slide to the right.
Not necessarily, especially if it happens so soon. If Starmer is successful in bringing immigration down, Reform becomes less relevant by the day because it is their only policy of note. Yes there would be potential for the left vote to be split, that is the downside, but if the newer party proved popular and as a result of that popularity forced Starmer to act more like a Labour leader than a Tory leader then it would be a good result for the country. And come the next election they could potentially work together, as the Tories and the Brexit party did a few years back, by not fighting against each other.
The laughable irony is that those "left wingers" that are denouncing these words from Starmer as being straight from the Enoch Powell "rivers of blood" speech include in the same denouncement that these words "risk people's lives" which is even more reminiscent of the Powell "rivers of blood" bit than Starmer's "strangers" part that they are denouncing. And of course they cannot see that irony.
When talking about something running through society it is not a catch all "everybody" thing as you seemingly show. But it only takes one look at the TV, the Print, the internet, public discourse to see that in general what I wrote is indeed true. That some people, like you, do not match things 100% does not make it any less true that a vast swathe of the left and virtually all of the very vocal left (if the left actually is left) DO support authoritarian measures and want to be ruled by technocrats. And a portion of them denounce capitalism in the same paragraphs as they moan about young people not being able to afford to buy assets!
I agree about Starmer's speech not being comparable. I would also say that it is also just words for people to hear and no real action will happen, just like with the Tories for 14 years. Say things that get people on side. Never intend to act on them.
Hurts me to say it but we have not seen any of that in government since Blair departed! Disagree with lots he said and did, but he was able to stand his ground against the media, against dissenters in his own party and obviously against his opposition from the other side of the house. He was also able to make decisions and push through on them rather than creating never ending quangos to provide him with the answers that he could then disown if they went wrong which is the modern practice nowadays (Tory and Labour) across all western democracies. When we vote for MPs and PMs and then when in power ask someone else "tell me what we should do" we have a problem.
Blair sold his soul to Rupert Murdoch, so wasn’t challenged by most of the media in the same way Labour are today.
But they are acting, for better or worse. Like abolishing the Carers Visa, which allowed care homes to recruit staff with no qualifications, directly from abroad.
