Dodgy Dave Cameron, arsehole entitled to a good kicking.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I don't know about that. Have you seen the number of independent candidates for this coming election?
Not really, although I know there are more candidates than ever before. But candidates are one thing and elected MPs are quite another. If you're not already an MP or getting helped by the major parties in some way then getting elected as an independent candidate is virtually impossible.
And economically illiterate. He got the Chancellor of the Exchequer gig because he was a Brexit believer.
Yeah, Starmer looks more and more like the sort of lucky general Napoleon was keen to have on his side. And still massively underestimated; lack of charisma may be a handicap in the eyes of the general public, but when it comes to actually getting things done, being quietly effective generally beats rock star swagger.
On how politicians come across, most of the major parties have their people media-trained up to the eyeballs and we can all see it. They pretty much go into interviews and so on aiming not to say anything noteworthy. We all know the stock phrases they use and we can tell they're saying the lines they've been given by their PR or communications people. "What I would say about [insert issue here] is..." etc etc. Cameron and Blair were better and seemed little more natural but you could still tell what they were doing.
One reason people like Farage is that he speaks in a more natural way than most. You can pretty much imagine him talking the same way in his private conversations as he does in interviews. The same goes for Jacob Rees-Mogg (even though he doesn't talk like most people) or George Galloway and even Boris to an extent. I imagine you could have said the same about someone like Dennis Skinner, although I haven't really seen enough of him speaking in interviews to be sure.
One reason people like Farage is that he speaks in a more natural way than most. You can pretty much imagine him talking the same way in his private conversations as he does in interviews. The same goes for Jacob Rees-Mogg (even though he doesn't talk like most people) or George Galloway and even Boris to an extent. I imagine you could have said the same about someone like Dennis Skinner, although I haven't really seen enough of him speaking in interviews to be sure.
I don't know. Ashfield is a decent example and I daresay a "party" that is solely focused on the area it represents and not a nationwide merger of issues where some might be overly focused on certain urban areas might be a very good thing. Not least because then you could eradicate the job for the boys they want to create everywhere namely mayors! Local Mps should be doing that job not creating another avenue for failed politicians to move into!
That was more the point I was making above. Cameron and Blair were good at saying things as if they believed them although Cameron did get into the whole repetitive slogan mantra after 2015 which is in overdrive these days hence the public laughter at "My Dad was a toolmaker." At the end of the day they are all professional liars backing policies they don't agree with in order to climb the pole.
Starmer should have been honest about that the other day. He campaigned for things he didn't believe in because thats what politicians in political parties do! They make trade offs and toe the line.
I find it ridiculous the defections atm. It just shows how little conviction these people have both in the way they jump to a party they have fought tooth and nail against but are so desperate to try and hang on to their positions but even worse I find are the parties that happily accept defectors who are quite obviously unsuited. Namely that last woman from the Tories to Labour.
I think it would be more more respected in the public eyes that rather than accept anyone to make the numbers up they openly said "No we don't want you" to some of them.
But the way they are jumping around shows they are not actually tied to their parties and only using them as vehicles, quite happy to jump to another vehicle when it suits.
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Ryazan 1999. FSB agents are arrested planting bombs during the week of a series of "Chechen" bombs explode in Russia, killing hundreds. A few days later the arrested men are released and the authorities claim it was just sugar with timers attached as part of a training exercise. A training exercise in a busy city building during a period of crisis... It is a few weeks before state elections and Putin's aggressive response thrusts him from virtual nobody status into a position of power.
One Alexander Litvinenko suggests that actually these were internal attacks of terrorism committed against by Putin. He also dares to suggest Putin has had his political opponent Boris Berezovsky assassinated. 17 years later - in a blatant act of international terrorism - Putin has Livinenko himself assassinated.
Whether or not you accept that Putin did have a hand in the internal terror attacks, the assassinations he has committed within your nation - that I believe you are patriotic about - make Putin a terrorist. So, I guess they are indeed the same.
And before you start claiming an assassination is not a terrorist act, the fact he used a nuclear isotope to do it marks it out as a clear act of international intimidation and terror. Putin has repeatedly murdered his enemies by throwing them out of windows, poisoning them, or having them arrested and then "fall and hurt their heads".
To claim he is not a terrorist is to disrespect the UK, to be honest.
If you are trying to equate talking with Russia to talking with the IRA then Id suggest your a crackpot
No, I am responding to your point. Don't deal with terrorists.
Or is it only the terrorists you like who we can talk to?
Because the political arm of the IRA - Sinn Fein - was a political organisation with terrorist links.
Exactly like Putin. A political figure with terrorist links.
You can’t be serious?
He’s the president of Russia. Of course we have to negotiate and talk to him
There is absolutely no comparison
You can’t be serious?
He’s the president of Russia. Of course we have to negotiate and talk to him
There is absolutely no comparison
Sometimes you come across like you are trying to be ignorant for the sake of it.
We DID speak to Sinn Fein as part of ending the troubles in Northern Ireland. Without doing so we would not have ended those troubles.
You want to speak to Russia (as does Corbyn, by the way) to end this war.
So you are saying there is no comparison between:
Putin.............................................................. Sinn Fein
Political.......................................................... Political
Ongoing conflict ........................................... Ongoing conflict
Explicit links to terrorist acts......................... Explicit links to terrorist acts
Corbyn backs a dialogue.............................. Corbyn backs a dialogue
Has perpetrated terrorist act in London........ You get the idea....
Let's be clear. You are saying there is no comparison at all? Not one shred of comparison?
Churchill was the absolute Master of defections. Con to Lib and back again. In more recent times we have Anderson leaping twice. Truss is another. And that guy from Blair's Government. And while not switching, Bunter loved to ride not only múltiple horses but women at the same time!
Well I said earlier in the thread I'd be in favour of more independent local representatives. It's how our system was originally intended to work. But the current MP for Ashfield is Lee Anderson, who won as a Conservative. We'll see what happens this time. I also see the Ashfield Independents candidate has been charged with fraud and tax evasion, which I suspect may damage his chances of getting elected. It's not totally impossible for independents to get elected but the major parties dominate to such an extent it would take years to get anywhere near being elected.
The situation in Ashfield is interesting because council elections are different. It's possible for Independents or local resident groups to have success in those because turnout is so much lower and if you could become a councillor it might be possible to use that platform to get elected and that might be a path that others could follow. Sadly, even if an independent MP was elected they'd be fairly insignificant. Particularly if Labour get the huge majority that seems likely.
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Much as I enjoy watching the Conservative Party eat itself, I’m actually quite disturbed at the prospect of it morphing into a Farage inspired, US Republican like populist monstrosity. That would not be good for our increasingly fragile democracy.