Off Topic Politics Thread

[shoot_spiderman]

For what it's worth, and I appreciate this will be deeply unpopular, but I don't think you can attribute the high rates of obesity purely to capitalism or poverty.

For the most part people are insanely overweight for similar reasons to people are drink or drug addicts, it's because they lack self worth and a willingness to improve themselves. If you're 20 stone plus because you're excessively eating/drinking every day and never leave your house then you're a drain on society in the same way that heroin addicts who spend all their time begging and stealing are a drain on society

I want to emphasise that this clearly isn't all people in this category but it doesn't do society any favours to pretend these people don't exist. I've been there myself, around 5 years ago I spent months sniffing cocaine 4/5 days a week and racking up a **** ton of debt. I wasn't a drug addict because of capitalism or dem nasty Tories but because I liked taking drugs and didn't care enough to make a change.

It's even worse for children. How many parents make a conscious effort to ensure their kids give enough exercise? Or do they stick them in front of a tablet from age 3 as it's easier for them and all they want to do is sit in front of Netflix or on their phone?

There's a cultural thing here too. I grew up in the 90s and from the age of about 8 I was out the house with my friends pretty much every single day and it would be all day at weekends but that doesn't really happen now. Why? I believe a big part of it is that there wasn't the fear of nonces back then in the same way but it also runs deeper than that imo. Either way the outcome is that obese kids in my school were the rarity and that clearly isn't the case anymore.

This turned into a bit of a rant lol but my point is that it's far too simplistic to say the big increase of obesity is due to poverty etc when there's a lot of contributing factors such as the rise of technology/social media and the increase of people who won't take responsibility for themselves or their children (and those 2 things are directly linked imo) .

Other things definitely need addressing of course but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call out people who come under the above categories.

Key word you use is ‘addicts’
Junk food / drink suppliers are drug pushers feeding off peoples addiction
Addiction is a key principle of some sectors, gambling, phones, vapes. You know your customers will keep coming back especially if you get em young

 

[ChilcoSaint]

There are some insidious factors at play here, though.

The cheapest ingredients are generally worse for you. An example: when health conscious people moved more and more to milk with fat removed, there was a glut (and there still is) of cream. At one point in bulk it was about a penny a litre. As any cook will tell you, add cream to pretty much any food and it will taste better. So, what did food companies do? They added it to low-end foods. Better taste, cheaper ingredients. Thus, the long-term effect of people drinking 'healthier' milk was to move fat intake from people who care about their health into the diets of people who eat pre-prepared food (predominantly worse-off and less educated people). These people aren't eating more or feeling fuller, they're just bunging down meals that food companies have made worse for them because it's profitable. Everyone in this scenario is behaving rationally yet weight is going onto the waistlines of the time and/or money poor.

And it doesn't take a huge amount of extra calories to pile on weight. There are about 3,600 calories in a pound of fat. Eat an extra 50 calories a day (about two teaspoons of cream) and you'd put on 5lb a year, a stone every three years, six stone between age 20 and 40. So, by eating pre-prepared food daily that has had a tiny bit of cream added you could bang on six stone without ever feeling fuller or eating more food.

There's also huge evidence that willpower doesn't actually work when it comes to food. There are other factors at work. Take the bacteria from obese mouse guts and put them into normal mice and the mice become obese. I'm not saying this or cream is the root cause, just that it's not as simple as it sounds.

I suspect there'll be advances in medical knowledge in this area and that solutions will be found but I'm not sure that it's all just a lack of willpower once you look deeper.

Vin

The part about the gut flora is perfectly true and very well-researched. Not many people realise that your body contains around 100 trillion cells, but only about half of those contain your DNA. The rest are colonist cells, mostly bacteria, and most of those are in your intestines. The gut microbiome has been called the “second brain” because those bacteria definitely influence your appetite and food cravings. If you have a population of sugar or fat craving bacteria in your gut, then you are far more likely to crave foods containing those things. As Vin says, this can happen completely outside your conscious awareness.

It is, of course, possible to reverse this by positively eating healthy foods, and over a period of time, this will reduce the population of “bad” bacteria in your gut. This, of course, will involve willpower.

 

[The Ides of March]

Just slimming some of the comments on the way we eat and how our diet can impacto our weight and ultimately our health. No oñe has yet mentioned our sugar is in virtually everything we eat from the biscuit to the fruit- flavoured yoghurts.

 

[The Ides of March]

And the biggest drug of all ... Sugar!!

 

[Schad]

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What's another 30-45 felonies between friends.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

To be fair my Keto diet revolves around cutting out sugar. No more than 50gms of carbs a day. I probably have no more than 10-15 gms of sugar a day (less than 3 teaspoons) ever.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

To be fair my Keto diet revolves around cutting out sugar. No more than 50gms of carbs a day. I probably have no more than 10-15 gms of sugar a day (less than 3 teaspoons) ever.

The Keto diet is a very good way of eliminating harmful bacteria from the gut. Worth looking at ways of encouraging healthy gut flora to repopulate though. Lactobacillus acidophilus capsules is a quick shortcut.

 

[Archers Road]

I agree, but that is the wonderful thing about free speech (un)fortunately

It’s not free speech though, when most media outlets are owned by billionaire oligarchs all pushing the same low tax, high profit, steal-from-the-poor-and-give-to-the-rich agenda.

 

[Osvaldorama]

That is bollocks. Capitalism in its simplest form is the free exchange of one service for another. It was not designed for mass production- and the consequent accumulation of wealth by a minority. When wealth was merely I do this for you and you do that for me and this coin represents that, it was a very slow diverting of rich and poor. In those days physical violence delineated rich from poor. The violence of the overlords. Now we are subjugated by the money itself. People can earn a thousand man hours in a minute without doing a thing. That is speeding up the wealth gap.

There are middle grounds between unfettered capitalism and totalitarian communism. I don’t know why you keep assuming everyone else is stupid because they have different ideologies. Some of the smartest people in history have been socialists and some of the smartest have been free market economists. There is a road to walk between them.

But unfettered capitalism will only lead to inequality and rising unhappiness.

I’m assuming you’re stupid because you’re saying stupid things.

You are regurgitating Marxist anti-capitalist propaganda without thinking any of it through.

All of the most heinous crimes and atrocities in human history have been carried out by state governments in the name of socialism. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. All killed tens of millions for “the greater good” of society. Your socialist ideology leads to millions of deaths.

Socialists & Marxists love to pretend that millions of murders never happened and say “communism/socialism works”, but they are wrong.

The ONLY system that probably prevents this is a free market exchange with extremely strong private property rights. The kind of property rights which are being eroded away more and more by these socialist muppets. We need less state intervention, not more.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Look how quickly you all jumped on the vaccine mandate band wagon. You would all be pro-gulag with the right propaganda as well.

 

[......loading......]

I’m assuming you’re stupid because you’re saying stupid things.

You are regurgitating Marxist anti-capitalist propaganda without thinking any of it through.

All of the most heinous crimes and atrocities in human history have been carried out by state governments in the name of socialism. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. All killed tens of millions for “the greater good” of society. Your socialist ideology leads to millions of deaths.

Socialists & Marxists love to pretend that millions of murders never happened and say “communism/socialism works”, but they are wrong.

The ONLY system that probably prevents this is a free market exchange with extremely strong private property rights. The kind of property rights which are being eroded away more and more by these socialist muppets. We need less state intervention, not more.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Look how quickly you all jumped on the vaccine mandate band wagon. You would all be pro-gulag with the right propaganda as well.

****s sake. Calls me stupid but is anti-vax. Get a grip. There is a distinct difference between any ideology and the radical end of that ideology. Hitler is one of yours by that radical approach, by the way. Very much a capitalist. You would know that if you understood a tiny bit of what you keep claiming to know. You know, the kind of capitalist that engaged war to ease capitalistic national debts. The same way WW1 and Empire were driven by money. American Imperialism today is done through capitalistic expansion - which is still imperialism.

Please have better manners than to call what I say stupid, just because you are so indoctrinated in your world view that you cannot understand it.

 

[The Ides of March]

I’m assuming you’re stupid because you’re saying stupid things.

You are regurgitating Marxist anti-capitalist propaganda without thinking any of it through.

All of the most heinous crimes and atrocities in human history have been carried out by state governments in the name of socialism. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. All killed tens of millions for “the greater good” of society. Your socialist ideology leads to millions of deaths.

Socialists & Marxists love to pretend that millions of murders never happened and say “communism/socialism works”, but they are wrong.

The ONLY system that probably prevents this is a free market exchange with extremely strong private property rights. The kind of property rights which are being eroded away more and more by these socialist muppets. We need less state intervention, not more.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Look how quickly you all jumped on the vaccine mandate band wagon. You would all be pro-gulag with the right propaganda as well.

Os! Can we try and respect each other? It is important.that people have different views but I draw the line at calling someone stupid. If I were You I.would pm Loading personally.and retract calling him.stupid. it is OK to.call politicians stupid but not fellow board members!

 

[......loading......]

Os! Can we try and respect each other? It is important.that people have different views but I draw the line at calling someone stupid. If I were You I.would pm Loading personally.and retract calling him.stupid. it is OK to.call politicians stupid but not fellow board members!

I’ve been called worse

 

[Osvaldorama]

Os! Can we try and respect each other? It is important.that people have different views but I draw the line at calling someone stupid. If I were You I.would pm Loading personally.and retract calling him.stupid. it is OK to.call politicians stupid but not fellow board members!

Agree. I apologise. He isn’t a stupid guy.

I just get worked up about this topic as so many people fall for the “greater good” promise to the detriment of all.

Society is at its best when we empower sovereign individuals who wish to make the world a better place.

 

[......loading......]

Agree. I apologise

No hard feelings! Eventually if we both slide far enough to our political wings we will join each other in the fetid pit of extremism!

 

[StJabbo1]

I’ve been called worse

Me too, default to insult often regarded as losing the argument. Insults from Os are a compliment.

 

[Osvaldorama]

No hard feelings! Eventually if we both slide far enough to our political wings we will join each other in the fetid pit of extremism!

Haha. I really am sorry. I don’t mean to get angry.

I just see the decline of the UK in general and it makes me so sad to see it all flushed away.

I want to get to the truth of what’s causing it because I want things to change for the better.

I want my kids to grow up in a great country, like the one we all grew up in - and it feels like that country is slowly slipping away to corruption and horrendous decision making

 

[StJabbo1]

Haha. I really am sorry. I don’t mean to get angry.

I just see the decline of the UK in general and it makes me so sad to see it all flushed away.

I want to get to the truth of what’s causing it because I want things to change for the better.

I want my kids to grow up in a great country, like the one we all grew up in - and it feels like that country is slowly slipping away to corruption and horrendous decision making

As we all do, we differ on the means of Making Britain Great Again. (Get yer hats and tee shirts here).

Regarding corruption and horrendous decision making the legal battle between the Cabinet Office and Covid public inquiry will be considered by the high court on Friday. Does the government or Heather Hallett, the inquiry’s chair, have the right to decide what material may be relevant to the investigation? Can but hope the inquiry wins, the government is under scrutiny and surely should not decide what evidence is relevant. The lies and deceits of the incumbents and their cohorts are well documented.

 

[The Ides of March]

Haha. I really am sorry. I don’t mean to get angry.

I just see the decline of the UK in general and it makes me so sad to see it all flushed away.

I want to get to the truth of what’s causing it because I want things to change for the better.

I want my kids to grow up in a great country, like the one we all grew up in - and it feels like that country is slowly slipping away to corruption and horrendous decision making

From My perspectives, not sure the UK was ever great in our lifetimes. As for being an industrial power, that ship sailed pre 1914! Education? The tripartite system followed by the much.lauded comprehensive system but did not address differences between different neighbourhoods. Working practices? Perhaps Archers has a better perspectives on this than me. I can recall the bleak days of the Heath Government, the struggles of Callaghan and the fuse that Thatcher lit in the 80s. Governments: Often confrontational, particularly in the early 70s, throughout the 1980s and post 2010. Health? Ask Chilco! Where the UK has been succesful.in.our lifetimes is in popular culture, the opening up.of Museums, the Open University and the opportunity for lifetime learning and retraining.

 

[StJabbo1]

Better late than never I suppose and a blatant usurping of Labour policy. The NHS plan will expand the workforce from 1.4 million to 2.2 million staff over the next 15 years in England but the tories have only committed funding for the first five years and the full report will be scrutinised when published.

 

[Libby]

There are some insidious factors at play here, though.

The cheapest ingredients are generally worse for you. An example: when health conscious people moved more and more to milk with fat removed, there was a glut (and there still is) of cream. At one point in bulk it was about a penny a litre. As any cook will tell you, add cream to pretty much any food and it will taste better. So, what did food companies do? They added it to low-end foods. Better taste, cheaper ingredients. Thus, the long-term effect of people drinking 'healthier' milk was to move fat intake from people who care about their health into the diets of people who eat pre-prepared food (predominantly worse-off and less educated people). These people aren't eating more or feeling fuller, they're just bunging down meals that food companies have made worse for them because it's profitable. Everyone in this scenario is behaving rationally yet weight is going onto the waistlines of the time and/or money poor.

And it doesn't take a huge amount of extra calories to pile on weight. There are about 3,600 calories in a pound of fat. Eat an extra 50 calories a day (about two teaspoons of cream) and you'd put on 5lb a year, a stone every three years, six stone between age 20 and 40. So, by eating pre-prepared food daily that has had a tiny bit of cream added you could bang on six stone without ever feeling fuller or eating more food.

There's also huge evidence that willpower doesn't actually work when it comes to food. There are other factors at work. Take the bacteria from obese mouse guts and put them into normal mice and the mice become obese. I'm not saying this or cream is the root cause, just that it's not as simple as it sounds.

I suspect there'll be advances in medical knowledge in this area and that solutions will be found but I'm not sure that it's all just a lack of willpower once you look deeper.

Vin

See I don't disagree with most of that but it factor in lifestyle changes which undoubtedly are a big part of this. It's simply far too easy to be lazy these days with the way we rely on technology so much.

Even to the point of essentials. 20 years ago if you were somebody who wasn't very active you still had to leave the house to go to the supermarket, or the pharmacy, or the bank, or to get your kids school uniform, and so on. Whereas nowadays if you're that way inclined you can literally get away with NEVER leaving your house for day to day living.

I also think we live in the era of the 'me me me' generation where people don't want to take responsibility for themselves and feel entitled to have nice things just because. This started with around my age group and coincided with the rise of technology. I grew up with this people and am friends with these people, and even now I see it almost every day.

My big problem with the way we approach these things now is that the more you tell people that it's not their fault that x or y is happening ye less inclined they are to make a change to try and improve this. There's too big a focus on trying not to upset people rather than telling them straight imo.

One part of your post I hugely disagree with is that willpower doesn't work with food. I'm of the opinion that all addictions are the same, whether it's drink, drugs, food, sex, or anything else. Fundamentally it's the same thing and you won't beat an addiction unless you want to do it for yourself.