Read the bill. All abortions apart from those that are done for health reasons are illegal and the new amendment is to class it as homicide.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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People feel very strongly that killing babies is a bad thing. Obviously.
If your view is that the moment of conception is when a human life begins, then surely you can understand this outrage? Imagine if someone was systematically murdering 4 year old children, how angry would you be?
This is what these people believe and I don’t think that makes them evil. I think the divisive media rhetoric in the USA around this subject is shameful.
If your view is that human life begins at the moment of conception, you should be far more angry at whatever deity you believe in than abortion-rights supporters. The rate of spontaneous miscarriage significantly exceeds the rate of abortion.
The debate is should women who have had an abortion recieve the death penalty or a life sentence for murder and my own view is that it is barbaric and regressive.
America really is returning to the dark ages regarding denying abortion rights, white supremacy and voter suppression advocated by the extreme Maga Republicans (not all Republicans).
I normally don't wade in on these emotive subjects, but I am.
IMO to have an abortion isn't a binary decision, it is a lot more complex than that. Unfortunately, to pass any form of 'law' or agreement on it we have to have certain boundaries drawn up. These include things like "When is a foetus a human", "what reasons can you have one" etc etc. You will never get consensus on it entirely, especially as there are so many reasons for wanting one. Also, as many have said, in the main, these 'rules' for women (as they are the only ones who can biologically have a child) are made by men. IMO a man can never understand what it is like to have a child fully.
We also have the religious beliefs coming in, this is one area I feel shouldnt be relied on. To me, state and religion HAVE to be separated. There is an argument that the USA is a Christian country, but even that is BS really as what you will find is that those who identity with a religion are Christian in the majority, but I am sure that isn't the majority of the population. Also, what makes Christian values correct?
There will always be a debate about this, but my view is that the woman having the abortion, should be able to do so if she wishes (within reason - not 8 months down the line etc), and not criminalised for it. But the arguments will always be where do you draw the lines.
Just my 2p worth.
IMO to have an abortion isn't a binary decision, it is a lot more complex than that. Unfortunately, to pass any form of 'law' or agreement on it we have to have certain boundaries drawn up. These include things like "When is a foetus a human", "what reasons can you have one" etc etc. You will never get consensus on it entirely, especially as there are so many reasons for wanting one. Also, as many have said, in the main, these 'rules' for women (as they are the only ones who can biologically have a child) are made by men. IMO a man can never understand what it is like to have a child fully.
We also have the religious beliefs coming in, this is one area I feel shouldnt be relied on. To me, state and religion HAVE to be separated. There is an argument that the USA is a Christian country, but even that is BS really as what you will find is that those who identity with a religion are Christian in the majority, but I am sure that isn't the majority of the population. Also, what makes Christian values correct?
There will always be a debate about this, but my view is that the woman having the abortion, should be able to do so if she wishes (within reason - not 8 months down the line etc), and not criminalised for it. But the arguments will always be where do you draw the lines.
Just my 2p worth.
And what makes specific branches of Christianity correct? Not all denominations are in agreement on this subject. Hell, evangelicals -- who are the primary driving force behind abortion bans -- used to believe that abortion should be legal:
https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...istory-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480
How am I manipulating anything...?
A child is a birthed human before it reaches adulthood.
Murder is slightly more complicated but broadly means planning and then killing someone.
You legally can't murder an embryo or early stage fetus. As 24-weeks is the latest you can have an abortion in the UK. It would be sensible to understand if any woman gives birth at 24-weeks there is almost zero chance it can survive.
I haven't once called you a right winger nor do I know why you are telling me about the prison analogy. I take each issue in isolation, identity politics as you say is royal pain in my modern arse. But you are as much a guilty party of it as anyone else on here.
It would help your cause if you didn't do what you accuse others of. Words have meanings and plenty of people know what they are...
Here's a question: if a woman that has a condition that causes repeated miscarriages (and there are a lot of those) keeps intentionally getting pregnant, is she guilty of several counts of negligent homicide? Or is she a serial killer?
I suspect you're missing the point. This isn't intended to be a piece of working legislation. Plnlenty of people have opined that it breaks international law. It'll probably be heavily attacked in the courts on that basis.
No the purpose of this bill is to present it and argue it until it's defeated. Nothing more. It's purely red meat for their target voters. They are playing with people's lives, possibly for years, in search of votes. Which isn't a particularly nice trait.
Vin
I should have added to "illegal immoral unworkable legislation" saying which may not get passed with the blame going to woke lefty lawyers, judiciary and
politicians. All champagne socialists living in Islington.
This popped up in my memories today from March 2020. Quite apt at the moment.
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So, which of you lucky people will be putting an extra £20k a year into your pension pot, taking it up to £60k a year?
Nothing in the budget for public services but I guess they will either be saving that for their last budget before the next election or, more likely, they are just doubling down on their efforts to destroy and privatise the NHS before they get kicked out, potentially for ever.
Given the number of unnecessary deaths as a result of their deliberate failure to fund the NHS and Social Care adequately, perhaps the Cabinet should be renamed with one of those 3 word phrases that the Tories love so much, something like Tory Death Squad.
With regards to longevity of life, in 2010 the UK ranked 19th in the world. In 2021 the UK was ranked 29th, after 13 years of the Tories.
Nothing in the budget for public services but I guess they will either be saving that for their last budget before the next election or, more likely, they are just doubling down on their efforts to destroy and privatise the NHS before they get kicked out, potentially for ever.
Given the number of unnecessary deaths as a result of their deliberate failure to fund the NHS and Social Care adequately, perhaps the Cabinet should be renamed with one of those 3 word phrases that the Tories love so much, something like Tory Death Squad.
With regards to longevity of life, in 2010 the UK ranked 19th in the world. In 2021 the UK was ranked 29th, after 13 years of the Tories.
I've done my time, retired, living in the Netherlands and enjoying the benefits of Dutch/EU permanent residence. I'll be busy campaigning for tactical voting amongst the community hoping to rid the the country of the pustulating boil that is the tory government.
One of the other expat (or is that emigrant) bonuses is being able to place my pension pot in a Qualified Recognised Offshore Pension Scheme which gives me far greater control of it's investment portfolio. Also, unlike many UK annuity plans, it doesn't die with me and goes to Mrs Jab when, as is inevitable, I pop my clogs.
There's a few on here, in government and elsewhere that should wear wooden shoes to stop woodpeckers from attacking their heads!
Expect more of this in their last year or so in power. Classic scorched earth policy from a failing populist government.
They know labour will go in and reverse this immediately which will give their media chums full license to say Labour attack entrepreneurial spirit and hate success.
It takes a special kind of idealogue to damage your own country. But not enough people were paying attention to the winner of the recent Tory civil war.
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Janet Yellen admitting yesterday that the entire financial system was about to break, unless they backstopped all the depositors at the Silicon Valley bank.
This sets a new precedent for government intervention now. Bankers basically face zero risk as they know they will be bailed out by the Fed/Gov.
I am speechless watching this. There will be huge ramifications from this week. Capitalism hasn’t existed since 2008, but now the banking system is basically fully nationalised.
(Side note; if they can this quickly and easily intervene in the banking system with tens of Billions, you guys still really think they don’t do it in the case of certain media stories etc.? V naive)
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