Off Topic Politics Thread

The little boy who never grew up and I am not talking about Peter Pan.

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The comments by Cummings over the last few weeks have been interesting for the same reason insofar that they have made little impact on Boris's reputation. I think this is because this is entirely what they expect of Boris and most people accept he is incompetent. It does not matter how bad he is if he is perceived as giving the people what they want.

It is interesting insofar that we always think of ourselves as being superior to the Americans yet Boris is Donald Trump refracted through a British lens and people still voted for him and will continue to do so in future by-elections. I think it was Armando Iannucci who made the salient point about current politics being beyond satire and I think this is probably the most succinct comment about the state of play in the 21s century that I have read. Boris's government could be considered to have almost no shame. I was surprised by Javid's return to ministerial office as I would have thought he would have distanced himself from Boris to avoid any guilt by association should he ever consider himself as a future Tory leader. Boris has set an unprecedented low for the standards of being a PM

 

Yep, I wouldn’t disagree with this Ian, and my main point on this thread is firstly the general state of Politics, the way the system works etc.

I think you could replace Boris with previous PMs though, and insert a different clause for the level of low. So Tony Blair for example with the Gulf War, Maggie for more reasons than I have time to list, and I’m sure others have lots of other people/reasons. I dont know history as well as I would like to, but I am sure there were a time in British Politics where Politics was run and administered in the correct manner.

And secondly, I find it funny in a weird way as I think no matter who is in power, the end result will largely be the same.

I made a comment about a heart ago about the Pied Piper, and a couple took exception claiming I was calling people on here rats, which I genuinely wasnt.

My point is that the majority of this board are Labour supporters, who vehemently attack everything about incumbent Governments, being very personal in nature often with articles that may or may not be true. Yet seemingly would happily blindly follow their own party if they were in Power.

And this is the issue I think with Politics, and if I may add, the way the media directly inbalance the output of politics. To me, the rich and powerful have always run the media, and Politics is now used as a conduit to get what these people want. The voters are merely pawns running between making it all come together.

It is why I dont vote, and likely wont vote.

 

If you have Twitter, click to open the thread. If you don’t, Rashford specifies the benefits each of his commercial partners brings to children.

 

Also great comments on there.

 

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I couldn't have expressed my thoughts any better. Thank you Ian.

 

At around 5pm I see the afternoon postman in my street and walking towards my house with a special.package. My Irish passport!!! Thank you.to the Repúblic of Ireland for restoring my citizenship, something that Johnson's awful Brexit agreement took away.

 

Agree 100% Ian. The main problem is that we look at the US, see how awful Trump was and think, "Well at least Boris isn't AS bad"

The fact is that without the even lower bar of Trump, Boris would be out on his ear.

Bear in mind I say this as someone who up to the last election voted Tory all my life and probably would in the future if they had a different leader.

 

Jammy git, congrats!

My nearest Irish relatives are two 3x great grandparents, bit too far to stretch for a passport unfortunately!

 

My mother was Irish, therefore I could apply. For me the worst aspect of Brexit was the stripping.away.of our citizenship. I thought only dictatorships indulged in such activities. Seemingly not! IMO, UK people should have been fighting to maintain their full citizenship, now sadly lost under Johnson's Brexit deal.

 

believe a bare faced liar and you will always end up in the ****.

 

How sado-populism sparked Boris Johnson and Brexit | The New European

As always there are interesting articles in the New European. Here is a link to just one of them!!!!!!

 

I was quite intrigued by Dawn Butler's expulsion from the chamber this afternoon for refusing to back down on her accusation that Boris is a liar. It is a wierd situation becuase I would suggest that most people would be in agreement and you wonder where the slander would be. The irony will be that Butler will be disciplined ( by Starmer at the very least) for probably telling the truth whereas Boris remains off the hook for a moment. I find it hard not to perceive Dawn Butler's comments as a breach of protocol yet only the SNP seem to be able to catch Boris out. Part of me sees this as a slippery slope for British politics and I wonder if politicians in the past would have couched the accusations more obliquely. However, the untruths that Boris has let rip do not derserve to go unpunished.

It is staggering how far politics has descended and I think that New Labour must take it's share of the blame even of the criticisms of "spin" now seem quaint by Boris's standards. I really wish John McDonnell had stood for Labour leader as I feel he would have put far more pressure than Starmer, even f the latter is famed for his forensic criticism as the leader of HM's Opposition. The fact that Boris has no shame and is demonstrably a danger to this country's democracy needs to be balanced by measues which hold a Premier culpable where he has been found to have lied before parliament. I would like to see mechanisms in place where former PMs can be prosecuted where they are responsible for major crimes like Blair with Iraq and Boris with Covid. This would obviate the need for the likes of Dawn Butler to take a stand and utlimately be treated like a naughty schoolgirl. Thsi afternoon was symptomatic to me of why politics needs to change in the UK.

 

He is a liar and everyone knows it, but there are protocols in Parliament and there is no excuse for Dawn Butler failing to follow them. There are ways of saying what you mean without crossing the red lines.

For example, my dad taught me years ago that if you are ever in court on a charge, you do not accuse a policeman of lying. You say, as pointedly as possible, “I believe the officer has made a mistake in his evidence.” The Court will know exactly what you mean, but there will have been no embarrassing breach of formalities.

 

Another take is that Dawn Butler could have called Boris a liar without saying the word and got away with it.. So did she say it because it's the truth? Or did she surmise that being expelled from parliament would higher her profile? Politics can be a long game..

 

Could have been calculated, could have been a case of her ego getting the better of her. Either way, she becomes the story, not lying Boris; so it's bad politics imo, but then I'm an old man with possibly superannuated values.

 

I’m not so sure, and apart from anything else, that old boys’ club system where you’re not alllowed to state a simple truth when the entire already country knows it badly needs shaking down.

 

I totally agree with the issue of protocol yet the fact that governments have not been totally open with the truth for a long while made Dawn Butler's comments somewhat inevitable. I think that the likes of Alistair Campbell ultimately paved the way for politicians like Boris when the New Labour government became so adept at spin.

It would have been interesting to see if a coalition government put in place to deal with covid would have been more open. The coalition between the Conversatives and the Liberals ultimately led to the latter's obliteration in the next general election because they had lied about tuition fees. This is the same public that seems quite content to accept Boris lying ! We don't seem to be anywhere near the point where Boris's position is compromised regardless of the nonsense he spouts. I actually support the position taken by Dawn Butler and I believe that John McDonnell was totally correct about six years ago when he made the statement that only a "direct" approach against the unscrupulous Tory politicians would work. He was calling for direct confrontation by citizens to challenge the disastrous decisions made by Tory politicians at all levels. McDonnell wanted Tory politicians to be actively harressed by the public and made to feel that the general public did not accept their policies. I concur that this is the only way the "old boy's club" Chilco refers to can be challenged as the likes of Boris see it as their right to govern.

Dawn Butler's stance is the thin edge of the wedge. Labour under Starmer have been poor at holding what is certainly the most unscrupulous Conservative governement ever to account. The majority of right thinking people abhor what Boris is doing and I would like more people to follow Dawn Butler's example so that those who have supported Boris through their ignorance ultimately understand how their lives are being undermined by this maniac. It is a real shame that so few of her Labour colleagues are as militant and don't follow her example. Starmer's opposition has actually been quite eloquent yet he is nowhere near landing the killer blow. As part of the system himself, this should not be a surprise. I wish more opposition politicians could be more direct . I think people would have been far more vocal in their opposition in the 1980s when I first became aware of politics.

 

There's a lot that needs changing about our politics and our way of life; and there is a lot that is worth retaining. I place good manners in the second category.