Off Topic Politics Thread

[Kaito]

I don’t want you to be wrong, but you are

You can’t change anything in opposition

Sorry, but yes you can change things in opposition.

You can change people's views.
You can change people's expectations.
You can challenge and change the current political narrative.
You can help build an alliance of innovative and progressive thinking people, community leaders and politicians.
You can encourage and help bring about a groundswell of opinion.
That is how great movements often start and that is how to fight for the future.

I do understand your point, and see why you are making it. I just don't agree with it.

 

[Farked19]

Blair is toxic. Left office after dragging us into an illegal war the impact of which is still reverberating around the world. Has personally amassed a £60 million fortune since. Why anybody thinks he’s the answer to anything, is beyond me.

Incidentally, his government introduced tuition fees, not to mention PPI (which helped paved the way for the creeping privatisation of the NHS under the current government).

How on earth did PPI have an bearing on the NHS? The vast majority related to personal loans and car finance.

 

[Farked19]

Sorry, but yes you can change things in opposition.

You can change people's views.
You can change people's expectations.
You can challenge the current political narrative.
You can help build an alliance of innovative and progressive thinking people, politicians and community leaders.
You can encourage and help bring about a groundswell of opinion.
That is how great movements start and that is how to fight for the future.

I do understand your point, and see why you are making it. I just don't agree with it.

Whilst theoretically none of the above is wrong in itself the challenge of actually doing it is massive. When faced with the constant drip of Tory media bias it becomes virtually impossible to change people's opinions. I would love to see a political agenda such as that proposed by the SNP implemented. All the hard left will do is to strengthen Pfeffel's hold on an isolated Britain.

 

[Archers Road]

Whilst this is true, the list of of positives his government had on british society is absolutely massive.

To use him as an example of how to get a labour party elected is the right thing to do.

Personally, knowing very little of the candidates yet, Keir Starmer would be my first choice, as he speaks very well and looks like he can appeal to the masses in a way corbyn could not.

I agree about Keir Starmer. And I agree with Keir Starmer when he says a lurch - he used the expression “oversteer” - to the right is not an appropriate response to the election disaster.

These are very different times now, than those we lived in a short while ago. The George Monbiot article in yesterday’s Guardian makes some pertinent points; In India, Brazil, the USA, the UK, Hungary to Italy, what we are witnessing is a global phenomena. The rise of right wing nationalism in Britain is not occurring in a vacuum; and it’s not Corbyn’s fault.

Anyway, don’t read it from me, read it from George Monbiot...

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-power-rewilding-party-trust-power-government

 

[Archers Road]

How on earth did PPI have an bearing on the NHS? The vast majority related to personal loans and car finance.

Sorry, typo. PFI

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Err........... am I being thick.........if you stop nurses leaving at the rate they are at the moment how the heck would that increase the numbers? Surely that just stops things getting worse?? What was said was not very logical.....He was having the interviewer on surely??

In Orwell’s 1984 the process is called “doublethink”, or the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts simultaneously while believing both of them to be true. The Tories seem to have perfected the art.

 

[Farked19]

Ah ok.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

We all need to read this article. I’ve lost 5 family and friends in the last 18 months and it’s scary .....

https://thecorrespondent.com/177/th...xit-its-life-expectancy/197470651092-d2e0df85

That is terrifying. I had no idea things were so bad, but it makes sense. And once again, there is only one clear target to pin the blame on.

 

[Farked19]

My feeling is that there are other factors at work here. My 30 year old son weighs the same as me. At his age I was 25kg less. He smokes, I never have. He drinks every day, I have only ever been a social drinker apart from at college. It stands to reason therefore that he quite likely won't live as long as me.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I agree about Keir Starmer. And I agree with Keir Starmer when he says a lurch - he used the expression “oversteer” - to the right is not an appropriate response to the election disaster.

These are very different times now, than those we lived in a short while ago. The George Monbiot article in yesterday’s Guardian makes some pertinent points; In India, Brazil, the USA, the UK, Hungary to Italy, what we are witnessing is a global phenomena. The rise of right wing nationalism in Britain is not occurring in a vacuum; and it’s not Corbyn’s fault.

Anyway, don’t read it from me, read it from George Monbiot...

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-power-rewilding-party-trust-power-government

Thanks for posting that, it does give at least the hope of reversing the seemingly unstoppable trend towards populism.

The fact is that, despite the huge numbers queuing to vote on 12th December, the turnout was in the end only 67%, which is average at best, in the most important election since 1945. About the only thing I agree with Farage about is that politics is broken. Those millions of 18-25 year olds who turned out, and who by themselves would have created a Labour landslide to dwarf Blair’s in 1997, will be heartbroken, disillusioned, and angry at how their votes were, on the whole, a complete waste of time. If they don’t give up on politics altogether, their energy needs to be focussed at local level, on small scale community projects to mitigate homelessness, child poverty, climate change, or anything.

One day, in the post-populism era that will surely dawn eventually, we will have a sensible electoral system that doesn’t see a party with 45% of 67% of the electorate gain a majority of 80 seats. Until then, we just have to protect our communities from the worst ravages of this bunch of crooks and liars.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

My feeling is that there are other factors at work here. My 30 year old son weighs the same as me. At his age I was 25kg less. He smokes, I never have. He drinks every day, I have only ever been a social drinker apart from at college. It stands to reason therefore that he quite likely won't live as long as me.

That doesn’t explain increasing child mortality, or why we are the only country in Europe with a falling life expectancy.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Blair is toxic. Left office after dragging us into an illegal war the impact of which is still reverberating around the world. Has personally amassed a £60 million fortune since. Why anybody thinks he’s the answer to anything, is beyond me.

Incidentally, his government introduced tuition fees, not to mention PPI (which helped paved the way for the creeping privatisation of the NHS under the current government).

I agree with all of this, I'm sure he is wheeled out at times like these just to get a reaction. He gets under most people's skin now so from a broadcaster's point of view it's a great move.
I remember when Blair won in 1997, we (in this household) were delighted. The country was so upbeat, so optimistic but it turned out he wasn't what everyone had hoped for. It was such a great disappointment to find out that he wasn't far removed from the Tories. I ended up almost hating him more than Thatcher (and that takes some doing) for what I saw as betrayal. The Iraq war was the final nail and I bristle at the mention of his name.

And I agree with Keir Starmer when he says a lurch - he used the expression “oversteer” - to the right is not an appropriate response to the election disaster.

And this is the problem. You come in from the far left to get elected and you end up with someone like Blair. It's a delicate balance and it will be interesting to see how the party manage the situation this time.

To change things you need power, to get power you need to be elected, to get elected you need to appeal to a broader audience. Simple.

 

[Osvaldorama]

I agree with all of this, I'm sure he is wheeled out at times like these just to get a reaction. He gets under most people's skin now so from a broadcaster's point of view it's a great move.
I remember when Blair won in 1997, we (in this household) were delighted. The country was so upbeat, so optimistic but it turned out he wasn't what everyone had hoped for. It was such a great disappointment to find out that he wasn't far removed from the Tories. I ended up almost hating him more than Thatcher (and that takes some doing) for what I saw as betrayal. The Iraq war was the final nail and I bristle at the mention of his name.



And this is the problem. You come in from the far left to get elected and you end up with someone like Blair. It's a delicate balance and it will be interesting to see how the party manage the situation this time.

To change things you need power, to get power you need to be elected, to get elected you need to appeal to a broader audience. Simple.

But the country doesn't want a left wing government.

It has shown that time, and time again.

People accuse Blair of being a tory, but he introduce the national minimum wage, increased the help for pensioners, improved education and did LOADS of things that a tory government would never do.

 

[Beddy]

My oldest daughter is well over weight........as is her daughters...but not her son. Thank fully she has never smoked although one of her daughters does but not at home and only occasionally. Her other two although over weight do not. Strange but by sons are not over weight however their wives are. Is that not the trend these days one big one small. I'm probably 20 lbs over weight however my wife is not.........Mind you she is so tiny only 4'10 if she turned sideways you wouldn't see her. Thats what I keep telling her anyway.
The younger generation are a lot bigger (and taller in some cases) I am just under 6' (or was) but have seen quite a few ladies much taller than me and not necessarily waring heels.Although I did meet one the other day who I swear was around 7' in heals. I was shopping for my sins yesterday walking down an aisle that seemed to be blocked. Seemed by one lady probably 20/25 you could not get past her she actually stepped into a cross aisle to let some of us pass.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I agree with all of this, I'm sure he is wheeled out at times like these just to get a reaction. He gets under most people's skin now so from a broadcaster's point of view it's a great move.
I remember when Blair won in 1997, we (in this household) were delighted. The country was so upbeat, so optimistic but it turned out he wasn't what everyone had hoped for. It was such a great disappointment to find out that he wasn't far removed from the Tories. I ended up almost hating him more than Thatcher (and that takes some doing) for what I saw as betrayal. The Iraq war was the final nail and I bristle at the mention of his name.



And this is the problem. You come in from the far left to get elected and you end up with someone like Blair. It's a delicate balance and it will be interesting to see how the party manage the situation this time.

To change things you need power, to get power you need to be elected, to get elected you need to appeal to a broader audience. Simple.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the best Prime Minister we never had, the great John Smith. If Labour could find someone of his stature to unite the left and right of the party, they would take power for a generation.

 

[Beddy]

I agree with all of this, I'm sure he is wheeled out at times like these just to get a reaction. He gets under most people's skin now so from a broadcaster's point of view it's a great move.
I remember when Blair won in 1997, we (in this household) were delighted. The country was so upbeat, so optimistic but it turned out he wasn't what everyone had hoped for. It was such a great disappointment to find out that he wasn't far removed from the Tories. I ended up almost hating him more than Thatcher (and that takes some doing) for what I saw as betrayal. The Iraq war was the final nail and I bristle at the mention of his name.



And this is the problem. You come in from the far left to get elected and you end up with someone like Blair. It's a delicate balance and it will be interesting to see how the party manage the situation this time.

To change things you need power, to get power you need to be elected, to get elected you need to appeal to a broader audience. Simple.

Isn't that the point though.......I cant think of anyone who has totally carried out their election promises.The tories have got away with it this time sometime in the future maybe the Labour Party will do it too. They all say what you want to hear rather than realism I suppose. Thinking about it though if they were realistic they probably would get voted in.....Vicious bloody circle...........

 

[Kaito]

Whilst theoretically none of the above is wrong in itself the challenge of actually doing it is massive. When faced with the constant drip of Tory media bias it becomes virtually impossible to change people's opinions. I would love to see a political agenda such as that proposed by the SNP implemented. All the hard left will do is to strengthen Pfeffel's hold on an isolated Britain.

The challenge of changing this country is massive but it will not be very long before people are directly affected by right wing politics of the Tories. When people discover that the NHS is still a disaster, general healthcare is now fast becoming a 'Pay As You Need' service and things such as the running of Primary and Junior Education is being handed over to private corporations then some people will start to wake up. Not enough, but some will.

When the material fabric of this country still sees little improvement with ever poorer public transport, even fewer libraries, chronic road congestion, utility bills rising with no improvement in service, a judiciary that has been politicised, protestors violently abused and laws brought in to make dissent, strikes and public protest illegal, more people will wake up. When people realise how little they really have in their pocket, and how much they have to pay for things that were once paid for by their taxes, lots of people will wake up.

When the people of this country suffer financially, all the promises are seen for exactly what they are and our lives are far worse than they were, that is when most people will wake up. Then change will happen.

 

[Beddy]

Saw the last bit of the queens speech. unfortunately I missed the important parts probably...............Was there anything in it to be reassuring?

 

[StJabbo1]

Saw the last bit of the queens speech. unfortunately I missed the important parts probably...............Was there anything in it to be reassuring?

Your reassurance may possibly be others nightmare. Better to see the full story and decide which bits give you comfort and joy.

 

[The Ides of March]

Yes because most of them are Republicans.

These Republicans would like to see the back of Trump as much as anyone else but I imaginé, but if they go along with the Demócrata they woul get the "Grieve" treatment.