Off Topic Politics Thread

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I can see that a few people are getting a little shocked over what this government has been detailing they are going to do. However, this really does not surprise me at all. If you read just a little of what is happening in the USA right at this moment, it is being followed in the UK just a few weeks later where it suits the Tory Party. In the States at least, the President has gone a million miles too far and is almost certainly going to lose his job. But he's going to take loads of people down with him, and that's the biggest reason why they are still hesitating.

But we have to metaphorically impeach this Tory party before they get a real grip and curb democracy. Because that's what they are leading us towards now. They have openly lied and broken the law - get them out.
First it was the totally unnecessary austerity to make the people cow-tow, as the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and into more debt and servility. Then we have the crack down on people for trying to earn a little more to make ends meet away from the tax system, instead of holding the rich to account, many of whom have devised ways of paying less tax than the poor anyway, because they have a Cayman Islands way around the system. Then they invent a sovereignty issue and say jingoistic dogma in order for the country to leave the EU, so that the great tax evaders in this country can't be held to account.

It's ALL geared to the well heeled, The top few percent. It's just a general trend that has to stop. If we mistakenly give them a mandate they eventually will let the environment measures go hang as well, and convince us its all too late. That's Trump's mantra.

Honestly, it's my opinion that this is the LEAST of what they are capable of. The juggernaut has to be turned around. Where's that bloody No-Confidence Vote or are we about to sleep-walk to our own detriment, with that card still not played?
 
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TheSecondStain said:
I can see that a few people are getting a little shocked over what this government has been detailing they are going to do. However, this really does not surprise me at all. If you read just a little of what is happening in the USA right at this moment, it is being followed in the UK just a few weeks later where it suits the Tory Party. In the States at least, the President has gone a million miles too far and is almost certainly going to lose his job. But he's going to take loads of people down with him, and that's the biggest reason why they are still hesitating.

But we have to metaphorically impeach this Tory party before they get a real grip and curb democracy. Because that's what they are leading us towards now. They have openly lied and broken the law - get them out.
First it was the totally unnecessary austerity to make the people cow-tow, as the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and into more debt and servility. Then we have the crack down on people for trying to earn a little more to make ends meet away from the tax system, instead of holding the rich to account, many of whom have devised ways of paying less tax than the poor anyway, because they have a Cayman Islands way around the system. Then they invent a sovereignty issue and say jingoistic dogma in order for the country to leave the EU, so that the great tax evaders in this country can't be held to account.

It's ALL geared to the well heeled, The top few percent. It's just a general trend that has to stop. If we mistakenly give them a mandate they eventually will let the environment measures go hang as well, and convince us its all too late. That's Trump's mantra.

Honestly, it's my opinion that this is the LEAST of what they are capable of. The juggernaut has to be turned around. Where's that bloody No-Confidence Vote or are we about to sleep-walk to our own detriment, with that card still not played?
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The fact is that none of what’s in the Queen’s Speech will get through in this Parliament, because of the numbers. I agree that an election will happen, but the timing of the Confidence vote is crucial. Johnson has to be forced to ask for an extension, or, if he refuses, then bring him down and have an interim government led by anyone who can command an anti-no-deal majority. This could be Ken Clarke, Harriet Harman, or even John Bercow, it’s not important, all they have to do is stop us crashing out on the 31st. Then the best approach would be a second referendum, dispose of Brexit for ever, and then a general election. I suspect we’ll have the election first however.

As for beating the Tories, this will require tactical voting on a scale not seen before. Everyone who cares for democracy, for the ordinary person, everyone who wants to stop this lying, cheating, dishonest bunch of scumbags who have brought this nation to the verge of catastrophe for the sake of avoiding paying taxes, everyone has to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Tory. The misery they have inflicted on this nation in the last 10 years should never be forgiven.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
The fact is that none of what’s in the Queen’s Speech will get through in this Parliament, because of the numbers. I agree that an election will happen, but the timing of the Confidence vote is crucial. Johnson has to be forced to ask for an extension, or, if he refuses, then bring him down and have an interim government led by anyone who can command an anti-no-deal majority. This could be Ken Clarke, Harriet Harman, or even John Bercow, it’s not important, all they have to do is stop us crashing out on the 31st. Then the best approach would be a second referendum, dispose of Brexit for ever, and then a general election. I suspect we’ll have the election first however.

As for beating the Tories, this will require tactical voting on a scale not seen before. Everyone who cares for democracy, for the ordinary person, everyone who wants to stop this lying, cheating, dishonest bunch of scumbags who have brought this nation to the verge of catastrophe for the sake of avoiding paying taxes, everyone has to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Tory. The misery they have inflicted on this nation in the last 10 years should never be forgiven.
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I have said in the past that I have a great memory for what have done to the ordinary people of the UK. Not once, in my voting lifetime, have they benefited the working population, except perhaps to allow ordinary people to buy their council homes. And that has proved to be a long term problem for the country since. How on Earth they continue to be elected is beyond me. The UK has no deep seated hatred of Democratic Socialism that I am aware of. For a country where the majority has a genuine centre or left of centre political bias, the Tories thrive on fostering a polarisation of opinion. And then they paint the Labour party as some sort of invention of Lenin. And people are very gullible.

BTW, I hope you're right on the timing of that No-Confidence vote, because I'm getting itchy feet.
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
The fact is that none of what’s in the Queen’s Speech will get through in this Parliament, because of the numbers. I agree that an election will happen, but the timing of the Confidence vote is crucial. Johnson has to be forced to ask for an extension, or, if he refuses, then bring him down and have an interim government led by anyone who can command an anti-no-deal majority. This could be Ken Clarke, Harriet Harman, or even John Bercow, it’s not important, all they have to do is stop us crashing out on the 31st. Then the best approach would be a second referendum, dispose of Brexit for ever, and then a general election. I suspect we’ll have the election first however.

As for beating the Tories, this will require tactical voting on a scale not seen before. Everyone who cares for democracy, for the ordinary person, everyone who wants to stop this lying, cheating, dishonest bunch of scumbags who have brought this nation to the verge of catastrophe for the sake of avoiding paying taxes, everyone has to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Tory. The misery they have inflicted on this nation in the last 10 years should never be forgiven.
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I agree that the referendum should be first.
Most intelligent people understand what it is, that Corbyn wants to do (ie negotiate a new deal and then ask the country to vote for that or Remain), but the media will continue to pretend that they don’t get it and do their best to confuse the readers/listeners into believing it is a bad idea, when (IMO) it is the most democratic thing to do. It would lose him votes if a general election comes first.
Get Brexit out of the way and it eliminates Farage and (IMO) the Lib Dems and gives Labour the chance to put their manifesto out there against the Tories record of austerity and lies.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
I have said in the past that I have a great memory for what have done to the ordinary people of the UK. Not once, in my voting lifetime, have they benefited the working population, except perhaps to allow ordinary people to buy their council homes. And that has proved to be a long term problem for the country since. How on Earth they continue to be elected is beyond me. The UK has no deep seated hatred of Democratic Socialism that I am aware of. For a country where the majority has a genuine centre or left of centre political bias, the Tories thrive on fostering a polarisation of opinion. And then they paint the Labour party as some sort of invention of Lenin. And people are very gullible.

BTW, I hope you're right on the timing of that No-Confidence vote, because I'm getting itchy feet.
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If I have got it right, winter is not a good time for Labour, as their supporters don’t vote in such great numbers as they would in warmer months. I’v Read this somewhere.
 
It's no longer the case that weather disadvantages Labour. Postal voting is so common these days and it used to be that Labour voters didn't have cars, hence we used to be taking old biddies to vote all day long.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
The misery they have inflicted on this nation in the last 10 years should never be forgiven.
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You won't find me disagreeing with that sentiment, but the level of gullibility among the electorate staggers me. The Chair of the Heads of Private Schools group has declared that a poll showed 68% of the population supported the maintenance of public schools. Now given that a) the population surveyed would need to be examined and b) as far as I know they weren't asked whether these parasites should be taxed in the same way as other businesses we might not be surprised, but the fact is that the right now have a weapon that they can use to paint Labour's VAT and charitable status policy as an attack on fundamental freedoms.

Yet again last night we saw an example of how we shouldn't ask the people. Strictly Come Dancing shows the folly of trusting the electorate on an annual basis!
 
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ChilcoSaint said:
The fact is that none of what’s in the Queen’s Speech will get through in this Parliament, because of the numbers. I agree that an election will happen, but the timing of the Confidence vote is crucial. Johnson has to be forced to ask for an extension, or, if he refuses, then bring him down and have an interim government led by anyone who can command an anti-no-deal majority. This could be Ken Clarke, Harriet Harman, or even John Bercow, it’s not important, all they have to do is stop us crashing out on the 31st. Then the best approach would be a second referendum, dispose of Brexit for ever, and then a general election. I suspect we’ll have the election first however.

As for beating the Tories, this will require tactical voting on a scale not seen before. Everyone who cares for democracy, for the ordinary person, everyone who wants to stop this lying, cheating, dishonest bunch of scumbags who have brought this nation to the verge of catastrophe for the sake of avoiding paying taxes, everyone has to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Tory. The misery they have inflicted on this nation in the last 10 years should never be forgiven.
Click to expand...
Well said! Extension, referendum then election the best way forward unfortunately Corbyn appears anti that.
 
ChilcoSaint said:
You certainly wouldn’t put it past him. Him and Cummings & co. will have been war-gaming every scenario.
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Cummings will, but I’m far from convinced he’s the evil genius everyone thinks he is (it’s the genius part I doubt).

As for Johnson, he’s been lying and getting away with it for so long, he probably still believed that a combination of duplicity and charm will see him through once again; but I don’t see how it can.

My instinct is, there’s no workable masterplan, only a poor gamble that looks doomed to failure.
 
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Boris' "New Deal" to leave the EU is starting to look considerably less radical than the FDR namesake. With Rees-Mogg saying that he might be forced to "eat his own words" and accept this "cretinous" deal then 17.4 million people may finally have the scales fall from their eyes and realise they have been had. There appears to be no substantial difference from the May deal.

Perhaps the EU should prepare a railway carriage in the forest at Compiegne and take young Pfeffel 's surrender there.
 
One of yer Norvern Saints said:
Oh I do love a good conspiracy theory. Presumably a common side effect is the belief that capitalism is a jolly good thing.
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See the wonderful world of psychiatry for plentiful examples of the limitless expansion of drug companies profits.

Despite the fascinating development of psychology, psycho-analysis and various related therapies, the most significant advances in psychiatric medicine over the last century have been pharmaceutical. By far the most common treatment for a range of psychiatric disorders, is the chemical straight jacket.

I’m not knocking the use of medication to treat mental illness by the way - some of these treatments can be enormously effective in relieving distressing symptoms. But I don’t think writing out a prescription should be the only, or even the principal, help available to sufferers of mental ill health.

The trouble is, talking therapies, and behavioural therapies are expensive, time consuming, and require considerable commitment from both health care professionals and patients (and their families). Much easier to just write out a script.
 
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Archers Road said:
See the wonderful world of psychiatry for plentiful examples of the limitless expansion of drug companies profits.

Despite the fascinating development of psychology, psycho-analysis and various related therapies, the most significant advances in psychiatric medicine over the last century have been pharmaceutical. By far the most common treatment for a range of psychiatric disorders, is the chemical straight jacket.

I’m not knocking the use of medication to treat mental illness by the way - some of these treatments can be enormously effective in relieving distressing symptoms. But I don’t think writing out a prescription should be the only, or even the principal, help available to sufferers of mental ill health.

The trouble is, talking therapies, and behavioural therapies are expensive, time consuming, and require considerable commitment from both health care professionals and patients (and their families). Much easier to just write out a script.
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Yes, and refusing the script is the final proof that you need it in this Catch 22 world. Based on my experience at least.
 
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