Off Topic Political Debate

Strange that Watford has no Tory councillor at all. Even the posh areas of town prefer the LibDems. Three Rivers another pretty well off area sees the LibDems increase their hold on the council at the Tories expense, while the Tories no longer control St.Albans. It is areas like these that show how out of touch the government has become.

 

A huge upswing in votes for the 2 parties specifically committed to remaining in the EU. Huge fall in votes for the one party committed to leaving. Conclusion from PM ... the voters are frustrated that Brexit hasn’t happened ! What planet is she living on?

 

You need to go much posher than that. My vote helped the Tories to 31 seats, keeping firm control in Dacorum. Labour failed to win any seats at all.

 

Tories lost 12 seats and LibDems gained 14 suggests collapse in support for the leave party. You don't move from 5 seats to 19 unless there a is big reason.

 

Yes, the delay to Brexit, Dacorum mirrored the rest of the country, stay at home rightfully annoyed Brexiteers.

 

Oh dear, they are so cross They thought that by not voting they expressed an opinion? Or just stamped their feet-like children. Maybe, to use the powers of extrapolation and analysis that some people appear to have, all Brexit votes are like children. But not of course true. The turnout was typical of local elections. The voters comprehensively rejected Brexit.

 

You obviously fail to see the obvious. The electorate showed their displeasure at the delay of Brexit. You need to consult more than the hard up local expats and look beyond your Guardian bible to find information.

 

Do you have any evidence that the electorate 'showed their displeasure' ? The evidence we have suggests otherwise ie. turnout was actually higher than at previous local elections (64.6%). If you are right in your belief then it would have been lower. The fact is that voters flocked to 'remain' parties. It would be good if you actually tried to produce some evidence for your suppositions rather than resorting to belittling other posters whenever you have no other answers.

 

S

Sorry wrong whinger.

 

Not a case of anyone whinging mate - just curious to know if you are ever going to actually produce evidence for your assertions rather than having to resort to belittling other posters. Unfortunately the fact that you are still doing this is proof enough that you have no other weapons to argue with.

 

One government minister has been openly saying that the Tory party should allow the inevitable split in the party to take place, and move on. He is probably right when you see members more aligned with Farage than the party they claim to support. Allow this faction to move over and join up with him, then his group of malcontents could actually decide on what they are in favour of, and form some policies. To vote for a one issue party is very dangerous, so if Farage is anything more than a rabble rouser he will need more policies.

 

It is strange to think that because I have a source of information within Dacorum, that I know what Tories who were losing their seats on an industrial scale were saying, despite the fact that I live 500 miles away. SH can protest as much as he likes, but I know rather more than him, unless he went to the count, which I doubt. The ex-councillors were putting it quite clearly that the voters had rejected Brexit, but now they had gone along with it they had were unable to change course. Tories didn't vote en-mass to leave the EU, but many of those councillors feel betrayed because of that impression.

 

The Lib Dems are mildly socialist but the Greens have moved away from their environmental credentials and become another socialist party, using the green bandwagon to support socialist ideals. The SNP are another left wing outfit as Scotland is beginning to realise.

The PM and the Chancellor are certainly not Thatcherite in their thinking unfortunately, a little more conservatism (not Thatcherism) would not go amiss and distinguish the party from the rest.

By the way, it is the Great Lady Margaret, show some respect.

 

Where arsehokes like you seek to disagree at every turn.. You really are a very sad man..
All you post on this forum is your self seeking drivel.
You are a narcissist. Look it up and gain a grain of self awareness...

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

 

I don't know why you bother with him Cologne.. He never ever will have any consensus with any of us who aren't Tory Brexiters...

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The problem is a definition of 'socialist' Scully. Inevitably we view descriptions like 'left wing', 'right wing', middle of the road etc. from the point of view of where we ourselves are on that spectrum. My definition of 'socialist' is therefore different from yours. For SH. everything to the left of himself is a socialist. For me a socialist believes in collective ownership of the means of production - seeing socialism as an intermediate road to full Communism - it believes in an intermediate period of state control but then the subsequent breakdown of the state into a system of communal rule in which the state (if it exists at all) assumes only a coordinating, administrative role. A Socialist also believes that democracy cannot only exist in the political sphere - but must be extended to the workplace, and all other spheres of human activity. In other words - a Socialist believes that it is nothing more than an intermediate phase towards the establishment of Communism. So now tell me again that you think the Liberals or the Greens (or even Labour) are Socialist. No real Socialist can accept Capitalism in any form - but those parties all do.

 

Did you learn the above abusive and childish language from the children at the school you worked at ?

Quite pathetic.

 

An interesting perspective on where you place the parties. I would have said that the LibDems and SNP fall within the social democrat grouping that is seen in many countries around the world. The Greens would like more radical policies to deal with environmental issues, but you cannot protect the countryside without economic back-up, which has only happened because the UK governments have been forced to provide money for such measures. Think how much our beaches have improved.

Thatcher did a good job when she first came to power, breaking the power of the unions, but in her later years really lost the plot. You cannot allow vast sways of industry to disappear and put nothing back. She understood that being within in the EU and helping to shape it was good for the country.

Our current government has lost it when compared to the one nation party it once was. It has been consumed like a used tissue thrown into a fire by a single issue, one that was never achievable when you consider just how integrated the social policies and economy have become. Politicians of all parties knew that we should be members, often for different reasons, peace, cooperation with our neighbours, or simply to be part of a giant market.

You will often see comments about what Churchill or Thatcher would have thought about the state of the current Tory party. I suspect that it is not fair to compare their statements as things have moved on a lot since then. The Tories were and are happy to sell off whatever they can to keep the illusion that the country is a low tax country. Not true of course, it just depends on if you call something a tax, or something else.

Go back to the one nation Conservatism and I might feel differently, but to see a country wasting its assets on a frivolous ideology such as Brexit is beyond belief.

 

Most Tories voted to leave the EU, fact. Was the son- in -law in a bread queue when he heard his selected snippets? Most Tory councillors are rightly blaming the PM for listening to her remainer colleagues and civil servants.

 

Either put up some proper arguments SH, or everyone will see from successive posts that you have made, that you cannot defend your statements. Although I choose to ignore your rather silly comments about me, I cannot expect every one to react in the same way.