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Off Topic Political Debate

Discussion in 'Watford' started by Leo, Aug 31, 2014.

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  1. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    They would drive so much capital, business and expertise away there would be no money to pay for essential services. We would end up as poor as the average Russian.
     
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  2. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    Same old lame excuse. Nobody in their right mind would tax an entrepreneur, businessman, pop star, sports star to the point they would not want to live or work here. So it then comes to the point of how much personal wealth is enough? So when someone worth £176m, lives in England, and buys himself a plane but registers it on the IOM to avoid the VAT... I say that is greedy in the extreme and morally repugnant.
     
    #8942
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  3. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    It is morally repugnant for anyone to have 176m in the first place Fez.
     
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  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Labour try it in the sixties with income tax at 97%. Instead of being the best place for inward investment in Europe we would become one of the worst. The Marxist twins really are a danger to the UK if they managed to gain power by default.
     
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  5. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Inward investment into the UK is vital because the manufacturing part of the economy has largely been destroyed. A great deal of it has happened because venture capitalists have seen the opportunity to pick up an investment on the cheap, even more so since the pound was devalued. Of course when the investment comes in a lot of the profits go out, and we constantly see that through legal tax means, little of the profit becomes taxable.
    Many countries in Scandinavia have fairly high tax rates, but the level of contentment amongst the population is high. From time to time a government there will go over the top to provide even more, but are soon told that they have overdone it. This is so different to the UK where we hear on the news tonight that the police cannot provide cover to keep people safe because they have been starved of money for too long. Maybe if you are a true believer the police should be privatised, and sold off to another country. After all it would be inward investment.
     
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  6. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    My point being is that it's not his fault for being valued that much, that is a symptom of the world we live in. It is his fault for avoiding paying his fair dues.
     
    #8946
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  7. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    Whataboutism 101 and deflection. Right there. Avoiding the issue.
     
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  8. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

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    What? You mean like Brexit?
     
    #8948
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  9. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    No, not a blip like Brexit but permanent damage.
     
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  10. I totally agree but...... The likes of Lewis Hamilton and Gary Barlow et al are useful whipping boys for the Government. Whilst the finger points at them it deflects from those behemoth companies that are destroying the high Street, creating a low wage economy with pretty poor working conditions and paying about as much tax as you and me.
    Yes - hold Hamilton to account but make the others pay too. And I know you haven't suggested otherwise!
     
    #8950

  11. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to disagree Fez but it is his fault. Nobody just gets 'valued at 176m' without being centrally involved in the criminal system we live under.
     
    #8951
  12. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    He is a multiple F1 world champion, being paid a ridiculous amount of money for driving, plus image rights and advertising.. I don't begrudge him the money if that is the going rate. I do take issue when he doesn't pay a fair tax. I certainly don't condone the rates that SH has suggested, but we do have to put an end to systematic abuse. Benefit scroungers (I'm not talking about the professional fraudsters), whilst repugnant, are too easy a target for too little gain. Need to get the money back off the high earners without taking so much as to discourage them from being here. The system is skewed in their favour, and that is just wrong.
     
    #8952
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  13. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I believe any more than a top rate of 45%, ideally 40% is counter productive and unfair. The top 1% pays about 27% of all income tax. The real abuse is the multinational companies avoiding paying their fair share of tax by creative accounting involving switching funds and costs between countries.

    Having lower business taxes, i.e. corporation tax does attract inward investment and creates many jobs. Ireland has proved this over the last decade to the angst of Brussels who would like an uncompetitive same rate forced on all member states.
     
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  14. I pretty much agree with you! If we accept that anything over 50% is unrealistic then I'd argue the rate isn't actually the issue - it's the willingness of people pay and, more pertinently, the zeal of the authorities to make people pay.
    All of that said, I am glad to be on PAYE as I totally accept that the temptation to keep a few quid back from the taxman must be rather powerful...
     
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  15. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Even at those rates once you add NI contributions you can be working more for the state than yourself. I'm sure once the taxpayer realises this the incentive for overtime might diminish. A taxpayer also pays VAT when spending their net amount followed by hits on moving house, driving, flying, and finally death duties on dying.!!

    I'm sure there are many more tax traps we cannot avoid.
     
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  16. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Just what does "working for the state" mean? Money taken from the public should be used for public services, the NHS, the Police, the armed forces etc. You pay for the services you want through tax, or by other means. As an example; If I visit my High Street here I do not pay for parking. When I visited my High Street in Banbury a couple of weeks ago I had to pay £1 for 10 minutes. It is a tax by a different form. Another example; I do not pay road tax here, but if I choose to use most of the Autoroutes I have to pay. It is a tax in a different form. I agree that the state should not over tax people, but if you under tax them you can finish up with poor services, unless you have a system of taxing the very successful people and companies that is fair, not only to them, but those who really need these services. There is a balance to find. Is it better to make parking free in town centres that can help to reinvigorate them, providing a service to those who don't have transport to drive to out of town shopping centres, because that will require some form of imposed tax from somewhere else. If I have the time I can choose not to use the Autoroutes, which does at least give me an option, something that doesn't apply in the UK.
    There is a complex system of raising money to provide services, and different countries use different methods to do it. The only measure that can be used to judge what is a good method is does it provide a decent and fair level of services for the majority of citizens. And that depends on the messages we get from our politicians. The you can have something for nothing has been a vote winner, but cannot be delivered.
     
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  17. brb

    brb CR250

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    But NI is only 2% at the higher tax rate? (More than £46,350)

    So for example if you earn a 100k you will pay £5,624.12.
    But if you earn for example 40k you will pay £3,789.12.

    Above based on class 1

    If you earn 200k you pay £7,624.12. this is only double of someone on 40k.

    I just don't feel that taxation seems so unfair now when you take this into account.

    (I'm a leaver btw)
     
    #8957
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  18. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    It has just come to me what SH was saying a few weeks ago. He was complaining about what he was being charged for a road closure notice. I mention the figures he quoted to my son-in-law who works for the same council. He agreed that such sums were normal these days, because the council was so starved of central government cash, they had to try and keep going by charging whatever they could, whenever they could. This is simply moving tax from central government to local government, so that the current party in charge can boast that they keep taxes low, but as brb shows not fairly or truthfully.
     
    #8958
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  19. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image

    How can the UK apply any pressure to the Saudis when so much of our weapons sales go there?
     
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  20. Quite easily OFH. The people are happy to see the economy shrink to avoid being overrun by an EU dictatorship so I have no doubt whatsover that they'll take a further hit to stop this hegemony...... After all, they're not hypocrites.
     
    #8960
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