Off Topic Political Debate

That's ok, you can call me David (real name) when we go out for a beer but please promise not to mention "political party membership"

 

I really do not know why the right wing of the Tory party do not leave and join UKIP, after all they have a ready made organisation and vacancies for leaders. These right wing members are intent on breaking up the Tory party from within, so they might as well stand under their true colours. It would create an election for sure and then we could see how many normal people would support them.

 

There are only a few MPs damaging the Tory Party, the oddball rebels such as Soubry, Grieve etc. They should firmly be told to respect the referendum result by their constituents.

 

If that was the only policy and the only thing they stood for and they hadn't whored themselves out to the tories then you might just have a point. As it isn't, you don't.

 

This whole sorry brexit **** show was to stop that from happening. Nothing else.

 

Blessed be the fruit....

 

What you cannot deny is the Lib Dems main thrust was the anti Brexit message. There was talk on this forum about a groundswell of opinion that would see massive support for an anti Brexit party. It just did not happen. The problem was the public rightly respected the referendum result and saw the small band of Lib Dems as being anti democratic.

 

The election was about more than just the Brexit issue, and lifelong Labour or Tory remainers were never going to jump ship based on just the one issue if they believed in their party on everything else.

 

The electorate, myself included, turned their back on them when they climbed into bed with the tories… then saddled our students with crippling debts into the bargain. I was a student at the time, I know how the fees rose for me and how unjust the policy was by government and by the University itself.
As for being anti-democratic, that is the domain of those who do not see this brexshit nonsense, by farage's own terms, as "unfinished business" with the survival of this country in serious jeopardy.

 

*amongst other things

 

I don't mind that slippery anti Brexiteer Clegg being called a liar and a snake, well deserved.

I blame the Labour government for starting the uni fees.

 

Even Lib Dem voters deserted them, useless. Mind you it makes their annual conference cheap, a local brach of McDonalds is big enough now.

 

They lost their core support when they chose to take their chance on a slice of power ahead of their long term survival as a political entity. The majority of their support was slightly to the left of centre and they chose to cost up to Cameron. From that moment on they were finished.

 

The problem was Clegg thought he could trot out the usual unfunded Lib Dem host of promises thinking they would be nowhere near power as usual. The lure of power was too great to turn down. They actually played their part well in the coalition government rescuing the country from Labour's unholy mess.

 

To be absolutely fair every party which goes into a coalition with a larger one ends up losing their profile - I've seen it time and again here in Germany. The FDP, the Greens and the SPD have all taken a drop as a result of this, at some point. In the Lib Dems some members would be closer to the Tories than Labour, but more would be otherwise - joining into a coalition automatically estranges you from some members. This is why parties should have internal referendums to find out which coalitions are acceptable before jumping in blindly. Clegg felt honour bound to form a government with the winning party, rather than to form what would have been called a 'coalition of losers' with Gordon Brown, and refusing altogether to form a government goes down very badly with the electorate. The trouble is that for years the Lib Dems have held the flag of PR. as their main issue, and many supporters thought they could push this through once in government - in the end this was derailed.

 

We've all seen what a gargantuan mess the tories have got us into since the end of the coalition. People are dying unnecessarily and the poverty line is trapping more on a daily basis all due to tory policy. And to prop themselves up they've taken the psycho mistress that is the DUP. Blessed be the fruit...

 

The Libbers got their vote on their chosen form of PR but the electorate said no. They then renaged on their deal with the main party in the coalition by refusing the previously agreed boundary changes. The students were right, utterly untrustworthy bunch. Normally the Tambourine Man would be here to defend them.

 

I think you will find it was not their chosen form but rather a compromise suggestion, which, in the end, was far too complicated for many people. In reality PR. is anything but complicated. As for the boundary changes - the Tories had already revolted in refusing to back reform of the House of Lords, and the Liberals pulled out of boundary changes on a tit for tat basis.

 

I agree that the ‘Labour Party’ started the disgraceful tax on education. It was a disgrace. But that ‘Labour Party’ was really ‘Tory-Lite’ (nicked that term from a wonderful letter by anarchist cartoonist Alan Moore).
That tax was tripled by the Tories with the help of Faustian Clegg.