Off Topic Political Debate

Tonight it is starting to emerge that 30,000 small companies are owed money. Many of these will be put into serious difficulties, and may not be able to pay their suppliers. So the sorry tale just keeps on spreading. Meanwhile the boss who quit when the profit warning came out will continue to draw his £660,000 salary until the autumn. This shows how lack of government minister involvement can have disastrous results. It cannot be right to hand over huge sums of public money and not know how it is being used.

 

The name Philip Green seems to be synonymous with spectacular business failure.

 

Yup - it was probably chosen from the Lizard's Book of Human Names...

 

One of my American friends came out with this...

If you enter North Korea illegally you will be imprisoned, with hard labour for at least 12 years.
If you enter Afghanistan illegally you are likely to be shot.
Entering Iran illegally will get you 8 years in prison.
If you enter the US illegally you will be given accommodation, food stamps, a job and driving licence.
Is it any wonder the world wants to go to the US?

 

Rather one sided this Brag. Firstly - does anyone actually enter N. Korea illegally ? Anyone doing this would likely be a defector from the South, which they would make political capital of. Not sure about the others - the only illegal immigrants to Afghanistan are likely to be Taliban, unless you count the US. invasion as illegal. The myth about the USA. is likely to be just that - a myth. Along the same lines as all the tabloid soundbites about how good life is in prison. I can also contradict your last sentence by saying that I would not go to the USA. for any reason whatsoever, and I am also part of the World.

 

It does seem that normal law-abiding citizens, especially those on the left, turn a blind eye to those breaking the law by entering some countries illegally. Without the necessary checks the hordes of illegal immigrants will often include many that would otherwise fail to reach the level of criteria acceptable to the host nation. There is also the well documented danger of organised crime and terrorist threats. Australia's hard line on immigration has proved effective in maintaining their rule of law despite much criticism of their methods.

 

While I would say entering N. Korea illegally would be particularly difficult as most of the border with China appears to be two rivers, with only a bit of land around the Paektu mountain where one could physically walk across and to the south there is the heavily fortified frontier, and does illegally include arriving in Pyongyang without the proper visas. Also knowing what Afghan tribesmen are capable of why would you wish to slip across their borders clandestinely? Not knowing too much about Iran and its own internal systems I think a proper and above board entrance is preferable.

The point I think is that, whatever your view of the US, is that entering the US illegally won't endanger your life - and could actually be beneficial.

You only have to look at the current situation in the US where an estimated 200,000 Salvadoreans are to be sent home. They arrived on humanitarian temporary visas after an earthquake and its subsequent problems, which, after 20 years, the US government is now sees as passed, even if previous administrations were unwilling to act.
Outrageous to some, definitely, but these refugees knew the situation was temporary.

 

I think we need to differentiate a bit more SH. 'Illegal' immigrant can mean anything between climbing over a wall, or crossing a 'green' border at night, to simply overstaying your Visa. The latter being the case with Britain and Australia. In the case of European countries, well the borders have always been a bit porous - with or without Schengen. The only one that wasn't porous was that of the Warsaw Pact - but nobody wants to see a return to machine gun posts, and no mans land. All of the others were crossable if the will was there to do it. Germany has 9 land borders and so the idea of building a wall around Germany is simply not practicable. Britain is in a different position, namely all arrivals are by air, boat and now train - all much easier to control. The position of many on the left is an ambigious one. On the one hand the USA. needs illegal immigration - and many branches of agriculture in California would collapse without it. It also forces down wages, and so, ultimately, helps capitalism. Only the rich really benefit from open borders - so why do the left always support immigration ? Has there ever been a multi cultural society which has had a socialist revolution ? The answer to the last question is no. Immigration divides the working class along ethnic lines and so prevents the class consciousness developing which would be necessary for such a development. Historically the expressions 'left' and 'right' applied only to the means of production - and have nothing to do with attitudes to immigration.

 

Entering the USA. illegally can very definitely endanger your life Brag. Since 1994 there have been 10,000 deaths crossing the Mexican-USA border. Admittedly the vast majority have died of exposure to the elements - but there have also been dozens shot by border patrols (14 fatally), and around the same number shot by vigilante groups. I would suggest that these figures are higher than for Iran and North Korea combined.

 

Who in their right mind wants to go to North Korea illegally, they do have snatch squads that kidnap South Koreans who somehow "wander over the border". Does Iran even have a marked border, all the Kurds and others living there probably wander about quite freely, illegal entry in all probability only applies to western types.

I'm not sure where the Border Angels estimate of 10,000 comes from but US Border Patrol's own figures are lower, 3562 since 1998 (https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/f...west Border Sector Deaths FY1998 - FY2017.pdf). Still a lot though. The figures the Mexicans have produced are similar, if only a little higher. Then there are also those rescued.

 

Bizarre that you continue to argue the business case, which in this instance has failed big time, at the expense of people., and in this instance public services.
Perhaps the Government has failed in its diligence and thus the shareholders, the electorate, can expect them to follow the business model... And resign??

..no chance...

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

 

They'd be more likely to follow the multi-national model - award themselves huge bonuses & pay rises, then walk away with a platinum handshake.

 

The government has been trumpeting its code that requires large companies to treat their suppliers fairly and pay them on the same terms as the government pays the big companies. Instead it has emerged that Carillion used its suppliers as a bank – refusing to pay them except on 120-day terms, while being paid on 30-day terms by the government.

For the officials and ministers in so many departments to have turned a blind eye to this bullying by Carillion is a disgrace and it is surely time that both officials and ministers in transport, defence, health, education and elsewhere are held accountable for this total failure. If ministers weren’t aware of this, the officials should be subject to disciplinary procedures.

This is a copy of a letter, and I would agree with the sentiments.

 

I actually thought that was common practice. Years ago I worked as an accounts clerk for a large business & was responsible for both debtors and creditors ledgers. I became quite adept at getting tardy payers to pay up, even if they were only a week over the 30 day limit - and my conscience wouldn't let me operate the creditors ledger to the boss' 120 day specification. Instead I'd pay by the end of the month after purchase. He took me to task over that, telling me to stop paying them until the 120 days had passed. I told him that, if that was what he wanted, he should stop signing the cheques...

 

Even the lefties are complaining the Labour Party have been taken over by a 'Leftist clique'

Labour now ‘completely taken over’ by Corbyn’s ‘leftist clique’, warns Sir Tony Robinson LABOUR has now been “completely taken over” by Jeremy Corbyn’s Lefty allies, actor and ...

 

The outsourcing model has finally been exposed by the Carillion saga as a flawed system. Drop a pebble in a pond and watch the ripples spread. It can work in some cases providing that people are in place to check that public money is being used wisely, but to hand it over and trust that the service is prioritized over the well being of the directors and shareholders is asking for trouble. Many countries use private companies to operate systems, but have a stake in the companies to ensure contracts are kept to. Maybe this will be a wake up call to the government to get a grip, but I will not hold my breath.

 

Is this not a perfect example of project fear ? Which you are always accusing the remainers of. Momentum has only 30,000 members compared to an overall membership of 600,000 - this does not sound like a takeover to me. What we are seeing is a grassroots revolution in the party - whereby the party membership have more control over the direction of the party, not surprising that the old establishment do not like it. The party is actually going through a democratization process. The rank and file of party membership has always been to the left of the PLP.

 

Momentum members are the activists who have infiltrated the Labour Party. The Labour Party has been far too slow to prevent this insidious group from taking over, the next step will be the deselection of moderate MPs and councillors. Momentum will attempt to reignite industrial strife as their heroes, Red Robbo and Scargill did decades ago. Hopefully the general public will see how the Labour Party is being ruined by these escapees from the Communist Party and stay at home on election days.

 

Pure paranoia SH. Together with further proof that you do not read texts before replying. You know that entry into Momentum is very strictly controlled to exclude previous members of parties such as the SWP.

 

I actually think a revolution is needed.... in our political systems......

Ordinary people need to have their say and their agency..... bring it on.... our society needs a massive overhaul.... power to the people etc