Off Topic Political Debate

Frenchie, this type of thing happens all the time in political parties....why is so much being made of it now ? While Blair was the leader membership halved from 270,000 to 140,000. Overall membership has grown again as a result of Corbyn's leadership, but these things fluctuate all the time. Besides which haven't most people on here been telling me constantly that membership numbers don't matter ?

 

I don't believe in the context of UK politics membership numbers do matter. What I believe this is showing is that 30,000 people are not happy within a party that is moving towards the hard left. One must assume that these are moderates, as I think most people within the UK are. If you look back to the Foot years when he tried to take the party to the left, it was rejected.

 

Membership numbers as some kind of macho demonstration of a "good" (????) political party do not matter. However if one section of a party membership were being "driven out" in some form of concerted party putsch it might be of concern to a Democracy. I am NOT saying that this is necessarily the case on Labour.

 

Why do the people trying to get across the channel in Calais deserve sympathy. They are in an EU state and by law should seek asylum in another country - there is no justification for them coming to Britain. Their behaviour makes me not want that type of person.

 

Nobody is being driven out of any parties. The only time that something like that has happened was during the purges of the left in the time of Neil Kinnock - then people were being expelled from the party. It is natural that when a party moves in one direction that people at the other extreme will move away. This happened on the left of the Lib Dems when they went into coalition with the Tories. It happened on a massive scale when Blair was PM. It also happened to the Tories under Thatcher - when moderates were driven away.

 

Why not go to Calais and ask them - or look at the conditions they are living under before questioning whether they need our sympathy or not. Will Britain forever hide behind this stupid law that refugees must seek asylum in the first country they arrive in - knowing that they can hide behind the rest of Europe - because they will always reach somewhere else before they reach Britain. Does it not disturb you in the slightest that many of these refugees come from countries which were part of the British commonwealth ? - that many people from these countries fought alongside my father in World War 2 - why ? so that Germany would give so many of them asylum because Britain has forgotten its obligations.

 

Kinnock and John Smith purged the Labour party of the infiltrators from Militant Tendency, grown out of the Trotskyist Revolutionary Socialist League. The main player. Derek Hatton ruined the Liverpool Council by his disastrous spending which ended by issuing redundancy notices to every single council employee by hiring taxis.

Same old story of left wing spending incompetence.

 

Is it ok to select which EU laws to abide by? It is a EU law that should be adhered to as the Schengen Agreement has proved to be a disastrous policy.

 

So, all of those nasties of the past were infiltrators and Trotskyist revolutionaries ? Have you forgotten the existence of clause 4 of the party constitution ? Which surely tells you that, historically speaking, socialists belong in the heart of the Labour movement and not on the periphery - that they had as much right (more so) to be there than Blair or his supporters.

 

Why not try actually reading other people's texts before replying ?

 

I did. You describe the EU as a stupid law but the problems at Calais are caused by individual countries not taking responsibility but pushing the unwanted onto the next country.

I'm sure you have been reminded by several posters that the only recent relative success the Labour Party have had is during the Blair years. The UK previously did not want a left wing Labour Party as its government which is still the case today and in the near future.

 

So, exactly which countries are not taking their full share of responsibility ? From 4.1 Million refugees from Syria - 1.9 Million are in Turkey, 629,000 in Jordan, 249,000 in Iraq, 132,000 in Egypt. The number of asylum requests received by Germany is (so far) 98,700, Sweden 64,700, little old Denmark 11,300, Hungary 18,800, Netherlands 14,100 and Austria 18,600. The UK. with it's 60 million population, has received just 7,000 applications - so, I ask the question again - which country is not facing up to its responsibility ?

 

I see this thread is descending into something less pleasant again ...shame

Given one great plus of Watford 606... and which we brought i thought with us to not606.... which we all enjoyed is that we were decent and respectful to one and all... on this thread alone ( and a bit on another one started recently on the environment) one or more posters, they will know who, seem to enjoy a spat in which there appears to be no interest in finding common ground...almost an enjoyment in the battle....

If we are to rub along together on this planet we have to create a common ground..... and find a way of working through our differences.... as a race we have to develop and mature or we will kill each other or wipe out the planet by war or pollution or greed.

 

The countries which do not process migrants in the point of entry as demanded by EU law. The EU have belatedly decided to beef up the external borders. The economic migrants need to be sorted from the genuine refugees. Merkel made the situation worse by her unauthorised comment saying 'no upper limit' to the dismay of her party and the general German public.

 

You know as well as I do that the first point of entry in Europe is geographically always the same ie. on the eastern and southern peripheries - it is blatantly unfair for those countries to take the bulk of the refugees simply because of their geographical position. By that logic Britain will never be the 'point of entry' for Syrian refugees and can successfully hide behind the rest of Europe by virtue of its own geographical position. And before pouring scorn on Angela Merkel it might be worth remembering that she opened the borders to prevent a dangerous bottleneck which was developing in Hungary - in other words it was a humanitarian gesture in an emergency situation - it would be a lot better if people like yourself stopped criticising from the sidelines and started offering solutions instead.

 

All I can say is that we all have some responsibility....

 

I did not criticise her for temporarily opening the border but foolishly saying there was no upper limit that Germany would accept. That encouraged many more migrants to embark on dangerous journeys only to find no country really wants them.

It cannot be acceptable under any circumstances that normal immigration rules are flouted. Certainly all of the economic migrants should be returned to their own countries when and where possible. It seems rather harsh but Europe cannot absorb millions of migrants. Hopefully progress can be made in Syria with a ceasefire and defeat of ISIS.

 

Is there one thing each of us can do today or tomorrow to make this world a better place? Will be more productive than the talking shop of politicians and......

 

Of course it can. Not everyone on this planet is as egocentric as you, these poor people have had their lives ruined, it's not going to affect you in the slightest,