Off Topic Political Debate

The clown has already had a congratulatory message from his friend Cristina Kirchner from Argentina who thinks she is a step nearer regaining the Falklands.

 

The difference is Frenchie that in the period between then and now the gap between rich and poor has grown, neo liberalism has proved itself to be a bankrupt philosophy (then it was only theory). The bankers and other predators have been seen for what they are. Even policies such as moving away from NATO, and moving towards a less aggressive (militaristic) foreign policy have become more attractive than they were then. Other aspects of Corbyn's programme such as the renationalization of the railways also have majority support. Labour did not lose the last election because of its place on a left-right spectrum but because of Europe and Scotland, and Corbyn is much clearer on both of those themes.

 

Weakening NATO would be foolish in the face of Putin's aggression. Labour lost the last election because of its proven incompetence dealing with our money. Socialism is a bankrupt philosophy, especially old Labour's model.

 

Imo Putin's stance is in direct proportion to Nato's expanding eastwards. As to the last election, nobody can say with certainty why Labour lost - they are all only theories. Labour lost about 40+ seats in Scotland, had that not been the case then they would have seen an overall gain. Scotland had a knock on effect also on England because of the successfull stiring up of English zenophobia, and resultant paranoic fears of the SNP gaining too much influence upon Labour. If you add to these the fact that the Tories offered an EU referendum whereas Labour didn't - in fact nobody knew exactly where Labour's sticking point was on Europe, then here you have the real reasons for Labour's problem. Their defeat was not based on economics but on the successfull Tory whipping up of fear and zenophobia - for Europe, for immigration, for Scotland etc.

 

After the election almost every Labour Party ex ministers put their heavy defeat down to the public's perception of their deserved incompetence with the UK's finances. The UK had every right to be wary of the SNP who have a selfish agenda. Hopefully they will call for another independence referendum next year although it may be dawning on them that their sums do not add up.

 

In 1959 I stood outside Watford Town Hall and watched Renee Short a left wing Labour party candidate in tears as the election result was given and she had not been elected as a MP. Of course in those days I was too young to vote, but ever since I have been interested in political history. My suspicion is that my knowledge of the past 100 years in the UK is not that bad, but what has happened throughout Europe needs further research. What I do know is that politicians in England and France are not thought of very highly. Some of them are very nice to meet, but when it comes down to seeing what they actually propose it is not completely what they might believe in, but is a compromise of what will work. It is no good being a hard line believer in something if you cannot push it through to a successful conclusion. Both Micheal Foot and JC are idealists, not team players. To expect a non-team player to lead a team seems very strange.

 

I saw the rather stuffy aristocratic Alec Douglas-Home electioneering in Boxmoor, Hemel Hempstead in about 1964. It was a soapbox event and he was heckled throughout. As a boy I thought it was rather fun.

 

Corbyn has voted against his own party over 600 times. How can he expect any loyalty from those he is expected to lead? There is a danger that the Labour party will split as it it did before when a left winger was the leader and the SDP was formed.

 

Alec Douglas-Home on a face to face basis was one of the nicest men I have ever had the pleasure to talk to. As a soap box politician he was pretty hopeless.

 

I think that I agree with about 70% of the programme of the party which I am a member of Frenchie - the rest I either tolerate or try to change from within. If you add to that the compromises made when trying to sell an idea to the electorate, and then the further possibility of coalitions (certainty in the case of Germany or France) which involves even more compromises. At the end there is little left of your ideals, but you soldier on anyway. Corbyn has voted against his party 25% of the time - which means he has voted with them 75% of the time (which is actually not bad). He has a right to do this and he also believes in basis democracy - which means that he will open up the party to the flow of ideas from below, which has been desparately needed in the party for a long time. Corbyn does not like hierarchies and, win or lose, go left or right, he will I am sure democratize the party.

 

The first Watford MP I remember was Tristan Garel-Jones. Is it true that he once said that he hated the town?

On Wednesday I voted for one of the Procureurs du Bien Public of St. Helier - there are 2 Procureurs, a term is for 3 years, but for continuity one of the positions is voted on every 18 months. The job is as a legal and financial representative of the Parish, is the second most important job in the Parish after the Constable, so they are unofficially Deputy Constables as they fill in when he is absent. There was very little, if any press coverage in the lead-up to this election and as a result, only 219 people voted, 1.18% of those on the Parish electoral register! They used to be voted for by members of the Parish Assembly, but it was thought that due to the importance of the position it should be voted for by all in the Parish.

 

Yes, I remember he looked very uncomfortable being insulted by the rabble. In earlier centuries he would have had them flogged for such dissent.

 

You must be a lot older than me then. Flogging the rabble had gone out of fashion in my time.

 

I aged quite a lot in the 7 minutes of extra time today!!!!

 

What I just cannot understand is the position of JC and his supporters in that vast numbers of the UK electorate will move from voting for The Conservative party to voting for a Labour Party that has moved to the far left to become a party of National Socialism.
One thing that stuck in mind listening to JC's speech yesterday was referring to Adolphe Milliband as great...I think that says a lot about JC.

 

If you mean Ralph Miliband then I agree with him.

 

Half of the shadow cabinet have resigned too. I 'fear' that the country as a whole will move away from Labour as a result... and we will have more and more years of depleted social services and welfare. That is a kind way of saying it

I am sure JC is a good man and has a sound ideology.... I cant see middle England voting for a Labour Party led by him though.

Of course does give a way back in for the Lib Dems....

 

Yorkie, I am sceptical about the idea of 'middle England' in as much as everybody appears to want to get them on their side - but who are they ? The problem with Labour in the middle is that you can lose voters in all directions at the same time. Better to focus on the 35% or so of non voters (they are the biggest group) why have they disengaged from politics ? Do they correspond to the poorest 35% of our society ? At one time the poorest third of our society were called 'working class', do they still identify themselves in this way ? I think not - I have not heard this expression used in a positive way since the early 80s. Corbyn needs to be able to re engage people in politics from the bottom up - needs to be able to get people to vote who have never voted before. I think he can do this. He also represents something of a problem for the Green Party. I don't think it matters that some ministers are against him - the rank and file are behind him (he won this leadership vote more easily than even Blair did) and he will now democratize this party from the bottom up, which will certainly ruffle many feathers.

 

I'm sure the majority of the non voting 35% will be scared off Corbyn by some of his wacky views.

He is anti democratic on Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands. The inhabitants of these places will veto his proposals if given the chance to vote.

He is out of touch with the economy, his lax deficit plan would lead to higher interest charges. His threat to bring energy and railway companies under public ownership would lead to a funding crisis in these industries.

He would increase public spending by irresponsibly borrowing whilst driving away wealth creating individuals and companies.

Are there sufficient financially illiterate people in the country to woo?