Off Topic Pointless point-scoring thread

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RebelBhoy said:
It was all built on debt. Which is fine if you can manage it... But Rangers couldn't. The answer was to borrow more. Borrowing against borrowed monies is mental. Shifting debt around to achieve that is mental.

And of course Murray was forced to sell. The bank wanted its money back because it was blindingly obvious where this was going..... Lo and behold..... Look what happened.

You could have saved Rangers in 2005. You couldn't in 2011, let alone January 2012.

As for when MIH fell apart, I would think the bank having to prop it up would give a fairly good indication of that. A bank which in turn was propped up by public monies.
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Rangers turned over £60m in 2010 and 2011, I'd say that they were quite capable of servicing the "known" debt. You seem to be confusing MIH and Rangers, although closely linked were not the same co.

MIH hasn't fallen apart and hasn't been bailed out by Taxpayers as you had asserted earlier.
 
<[O__o]>;4818200 said:
Rangers turned over £60m in 2010 and 2011, I'd say that they were quite capable of servicing the "known" debt. You seem to be confusing MIH and Rangers, although closely linked were not the same co.

MIH hasn't fallen apart and hasn't been bailed out by Taxpayers as you had asserted earlier.
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Here's the problem.

What you're referring to as the "known" debt wasn't servicable at all. It had been called in - that's why Murray couldn't sell without someone paying it off - banks try to defer action on such corporate debt for as long as possible because they can't sell it off like we can with personal debt.

It had gone long beyond servicable by the time Murray first tried to sell - the tax bill contributed to that status, certainly. But painting the debt mountain as simply the most immediate part of it would be disingenuous in most cases - when it's related to something as emotive as the football club you support, it is utter ****ing delusion.

Even discounting the tax bill as "phantom" in the narrative whilst some of it (even from the FTT) went outstanding despite the outcome, the larger amount is still being pursued by HMRC.

If Rangers hadn't died, it would still have to be listed as a liability - the only reason it isn't a current liability is because Rangers died.
 
Biggus Diccus said:
Here's the problem.

What you're referring to as the "known" debt wasn't servicable at all. It had been called in - that's why Murray couldn't sell without someone paying it off - banks try to defer action on such corporate debt for as long as possible because they can't sell it off like we can with personal debt.

It had gone long beyond servicable by the time Murray first tried to sell - the tax bill contributed to that status, certainly. But painting the debt mountain as simply the most immediate part of it would be disingenuous in most cases - when it's related to something as emotive as the football club you support, it is utter ****ing delusion.

Even discounting the tax bill as "phantom" in the narrative whilst some of it (even from the FTT) went outstanding despite the outcome, the larger amount is still being pursued by HMRC.

If Rangers hadn't died, it would still have to be listed as a liability - the only reason it isn't a current liability is because Rangers died.
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The known debt was being serviced, and had shrunk from £30m to £18m and could've been wiped out had Rangers sold Naismith, Davis, McGregor and Lafferty.

That's a fact Bib.

We've went full circle now and I'll post what I originally posted:

What caused the OldCo to cease trading was a phantom tax bill, a mentally ill owner not paying PAYE/NI for 9 months and corrupt pair of Insolvency Practitioners.

I'll call it phantom until it is proven otherwise.
 
<[O__o said:
>;4818200](null)
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Turnover means **** all Wedgey. You must be the only ***** in history who couldn't see what was happening even with the benefit of hindsight.

No I am not confusing MIH with anything.

Of course MIH fell apart. It was the reason it needed to be propped up by the bank. If you are confused by the terminology then read it as "shot to ****" or some other variant of completely screwed.
 
RebelBhoy said:
Turnover means **** all Wedgey. You must be the only ***** in history who couldn't see what was happening even with the benefit of hindsight.

No I am not confusing MIH with anything.

Of course MIH fell apart. It was the reason it needed to be propped up by the bank. If you are confused by the terminology then read it as "shot to ****" or some other variant of completely screwed.
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"MIH fell apart at great expense to the taxpayers"

Nope
 
<[O__o]>;4818286 said:
had shrunk from £30m to £18m and could've been wiped out had Rangers sold Naismith, Davis, McGregor and Lafferty.

That's a fact Bib.
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<yikes> that's mental.

Naismith and Davis are excellent players but even they wouldn't have raised half that.

If you didn't give Whittaker a new deal you might have been able to survive. He cost you big time in Europe.
 
<[O__o]>;4818454 said:
Fuck it.

Schooled the taigs once more and now I'm going home

Salút
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Commonly known as the Chapper Defence, a well orchestrated get out when you've made a **** of yourself.
 
<[O__o]>;4818286 said:
The known debt was being serviced, and had shrunk from £30m to £18m and could've been wiped out had Rangers sold Naismith, Davis, McGregor and Lafferty.

That's a fact Bib.

We've went full circle now and I'll post what I originally posted:

What caused the OldCo to cease trading was a phantom tax bill, a mentally ill owner not paying PAYE/NI for 9 months and corrupt pair of Insolvency Practitioners.

I'll call it phantom until it is proven otherwise.
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**** sake.

It was serviced whilst a Lloyds employee was forced onto the board - not before and not without him. The Rangers board tried to resist this and the management moaned like **** about it in the press and the fans carried banners attempting to oust him - to suggest that Rangers were servicing this is like saying a probation officer is carrying out a suspended sentence for someone he monitors. Lloyds were clawing back what they could before a clearly insolvent company went inevitably tits up.

It has already been proven to not be a "phantom" tax bill.

I'll repeat this bit for clarity but I'm not responding to your weird pish after this.

The only (and I repeat ONLY) reason that the tax bill (including penalties, clawback, interest et al) isn't a listed liability for Sevco is because they are a new entity. If Rangers were still here, they would have to list the bill as a liability - they would be breaching both stock market and public trading laws otherwise.

Rangers are losing money at quite a rate, if the tax bill (which until the UTT is completed would still be outstanding if Rangers hadn't died) was on their liabilities and they were the same club, they'd have been wound up months ago.


I know precisely what you've been getting at this whole time - but it's straight up wrong. That £18m had to be paid for the club to be bought - Lloyds announced that the debt wasn't servicable when they put Donald Muir on the board in 2009 - an absolutely desperate measure with very very few parallels.

The type of business practice which saw Murray purchase Rangers would now be impossible - no bank would lend without outlay the way BoS (to be more precise, specific friends of Murray within BoS) did back then.
 
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