Exaclty The quality of Barca's squad is undeniable. It's a tenuous extrapolation to simply suggest that Pep would supplant the same Barca ethic and get Arsenal playing the same way. Ludicrously oversimplified. I would suggest that if you put Wenger in charge of Barca, he would achieve much the same as Pep, maybe more?
I maintain that if we'd sacked wenger in the last 3-4 years as some were calling for, we'd already be outside the top 4. It is because of him, not despite of him that we are still in it.
I agree. Yes, he has made mistakes and we all know where he could have and still could improve, but if he left tomorrow, we'd be in a worse position. Plus pretty much every top club in the World would want him.
Well we won't know unless he's gone. But what is true is Pep is a fine manager, as is Wenger. But what i really want is for Wenger to get in some players and see what he does with them. At the moment he has the excuse of having no money. Unless he gets the money, we won't really know if he's still got it or not....
The problem is, Wenger has the money excuse ready made. I doubt The Magic Man or Piskie find winning no trophies for 7 years acceptable, but they are just being loyal and backing their man. Deep down, i do like Wenger and what he's done, but i'm growing tired of the same old same old. Thats why i want him to get what he wants this transfer window and see what he does.
It's more than just being loyal and backing our man. It's about recognising the very real economic circumstances of our club, those around us, the break up of the invincibles, a move to a new stadium and a complete restructure of the board. Wenger has been the one constant in it all - and has done a brilliant job keeping us in the top 4 in that time. However, it does seem that now, we are in a position where we need to strengthen the squad and show some more ambition. I think it's in our means to strengthen the squad and in order for the club to maintain some respect from the fans, they need to give Wenger the means to do so. Ultimately though, Wenger is still the man to take us forward.
With someone like Pep, there will always be the thing about him going back to Barcelona. So, if we do get him, I can't see a long term future with him creating team after team. It will be short and sharp. That's my only concern.
I have recognised that he has done a fantastic job on the financial side but that is done and dusted now. Even as fans on this forum, we go on about finances too much. I want Wenger to come back to football and focus on that now. I also want Wenger to take us forward but if we go another year without competing for the Premiership, then we really have to shake things up.
So now all the excuses are out of the way, how many seasons with no trophies would it take before Wenger took any blame whatsoever in your eyes, or does he have a free pass for life no matter what the results?
Wenger already has to shoulder some of the blame, I've told you this repeatedly, yet you seem to keep missing the point. And as I've told you before, any assessment of Wenger remaining manager, would have to depend on the circumstances surrounding him i.e. what funds were made available to him, how far he got in competitions, basically how well the team were performing. You can't just have an arbitrary cut off date or a ultimatum of win a trophy you stay, don't and you go. As I said, in that scenario, he could lose the Champions League on pens and you'd sack him, win on pens and he stays - it's not a sensible approach to man management. Put it this way. You would have already sacked him, when he was probably the only person keeping it all from falling apart. Players were leaving, board members were revolting, our financial future uncertain. And whilst you accuse others of being 'apologists' and using excuses to back him - you are guilty of using any excuse to try and slate him. So forgive me if I dismiss your assessment of whether Wenger is the right person for the job.
I would first like him to achieve something with another club. That set of Barcelona players were bound to succeed with any manager that at the least was not destructive to their cause. He might really be a top manager, but we have very little to judge him from. His merits on getting the team to shape physically when he took over are evident though.
He's not been successful in Spain alone, he's also won two champions league titles, which is an amazing achievement, no coach in modern football has managed to win the UCL title two times in such a short space of time, 2009, and 2011, not to mention he guided the team to the semis in 2010, and 2012. And even though he's been competing against Madrid, that is not something to play down, Madrid for the past seasons since they re-launched their Galactico era part 2, have had one of their strongest teams in a while, and Guardiola has managed to consistently do better than them, let's not forget the hammering he gave to them, a 5-0 victory. So please oh please don't try to downplay his achievements, because it really looks stupid. Wenger never managed to beat Mourino ONCE while he was in England, Guardiola made it a habit to beat Mourinio, not only in terms of head to head, but trophies too.
agree with PISKIE 100% on this one. Without wenger we would be miles behind where we currently are. He obviously has his flaws but a much better alternative to guardiola. Those who have seen barcelona will realise they are as one dimensional as arsenal if not more. Essentially what guardiola has done is enable barca to play with more freedom and flair than the past and taking gambles on some unproven youngsters. I still maintain he has been disappointing in the transfer market and ibrahimovic eto swap would have been a suicidal decision if at arsenal. Mascherano has done nothing really to prove himself while adriano hasn't lived up to expectations and i need not ellaborate upon affelay. People me view supporters like me as viewing through rose tinted glasses but i feel others have let the grandjeur of trophies and glory cloud their judgement with regard as to what the current arsenal side may possibly achieve with the current board. Most managers of top quality would outright refuse to under take the management of a club such as ours. This is a quote made by wenger in 2008 “The strategy of the club is to sell every year and to buy less expensive players,” he told the News of the World. “We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions – national and European – while having to free up, for 17 more years, an annual surplus of ã24million to pay for our stadium,” . “The club’s strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.” “If I had the power to change anything basic in football, it would be the transfer system which makes mercenaries of players,” (Obviously talking about Adebayor at the time, but it was the same with Nasri last year) “If they are bad ones, they stay, and if they are good, they think only of leaving. “I have fought for them to earn a very good living, but I impose respect for their contract upon them.”
The guy doesn't seem like a very consistent manager ... I can't see him sticking with any club he manages for an extended period before he gets bored and wants to "take a break".
That does sound like getting the excuses in early just in case he fails again. As for what would have happened if was sacked him 3-4 years ago - none of us have any idea on that. You are talking nonsense when you say we would have fallen apart and not been in the top 4 - we just dont know and never will. I could just as easily say that he board would have brought a big name in and openend the coffers for a couple of seasons, propelling us to 4 league titles and a couple of CL, meaning we kept our best players also. Pure speculation of course, but no more so than yours.
