I fully empathise with the Jews, from both the action of the Nazi's and Russia's, and everyone else that has persecuted them (and there have been a few), but that doesn't make a particular symbol offensive to me. I certainly don't look at the symbol and feel my face burning with anger, and nor do I sit down and weep over what happened (I save that for watching Schindler's List).
Following on from what Robbie posted previously, maybe not caring or caring about other people's feelings is the difference between being a dick and not being a dick. Empathy is a pretty important life skill in my opinion.
i promised myself i wouldn't get involved in any political threads after the lee rigby thread which cost us a few posters but to me, although not personally offended by the above, its not difficult to see why some would be. whether it happened by accident or not, it's a bit distasteful and i'm not surprised its being taken down.
The issue is simply to do with the standards to be expected of Man Utd. They made a crass mistake and have apologised. Nothing more to it than that.
Perhaps they should change their colours then, I believe they could do this easily and turn to the infamous Green & Yellow kit
With regard to 'spastic', the connotations of words change all the time. Clearly, as there was a Spastics Society, 'spastic' was an acceptable term once; now it is deemed unacceptable. 'Coloured' had a similar trajectory. Then there are the complicated twists and turns of 'gay' and 'queer'. Yes, some people want to be offended and they are definitely indulged by many aspects of modern cultural life. On the other hand, there is such a thing as sensitivity (once upon a time, I think it was called 'politeness'). It seems to me that modern life is a strange mix of extreme nervousness about being PC and a laddish boorishness that is aggressively indifferent to other people (e.g. serial swearing in front of other people's children). I guess I'm sounding like an old fart because I am one.
Storm in a tea cup for me. Does anyone seriously believe that the creative heads at Man U would have cleared something they felt would be offensive? Is it actaully an image of a swastika? No. Is the term New Order in itself offensive? No Was the "insult" intended? No. Regardless of the above have they apologised? Yes. I am no apologist for Man U but it strikes me that people have got themselves worked up over an unfortunate coincidence of a swastika-like image and a term which has been associated with the Nazi's. Nothing more to either. Nobody has ever suggested that playing Blue Monday is tacticlly supporting the Nazi's. Nodody gets offended when the symbol is used in India by the Hindu population. Is a Hindu playing Blue Monday whilst wearing a chain with a swastika on it offensive? Probably not in reality. Had it been an actual swastika I could see why it would be an issue but this just seems a huge over-reaction to an unfortunate combination of image and phraseology. If people are up in arms about it then in this instance I would suggest that they get a thicker skin as there are far more serious things to get offended by.
JK - I tend to take the somewhat naive view that if there are two ways of intrpreting something, one to offend, one not to offend, the odds are that the person is probably not trying to offend me. Happily not much gets me that upset - I am in the throes of middle age and know that even the biggest storm ultimately ends up as a mere zypher. If people choose to get upset then that probably says as much about their attitude to life as what was said in the first place. If you spend your life getting hot under the collar about things not meant to offend then you are going to spend a lot of your life unhappy. This attitude is not for me.
Whilst agreeing with the general of your point it has become hugely overdone and as a consequence we are in danger of losing a sense of perspective.When I was fifteen a classmate of mine drowned while swimming in the sea. We felt sorry for him and his family but it didn't occur to us that any further emotional reaction was appropriate. Today no doubt we would have been blitzed by a phalanx of social workers intent on counselling us.Ok I may be a touch insensitive compared to the norm but I often think that people react in a way that they think that they should rather than how they really feel. My dad dropped dead at almost 80.He was healthy until the last day of his life,then he was gone.It was exactly what he would have chosen.So what is there to grieve?
Norfolkbhoy - I was pulling your leg, bor CT - I can definitely understand what you're saying about losing perspective. However, you can also look at it in the way that J.F.Sargent has: "What I'm saying is that empathy is humanity's next big thing to get really good at, and having those conversations (not just slinging accusations) is an integral part of that. An offensive joke in a comic strip isn't the same as a war crime, obviously. But figuring out why it pissed off so many people is a great opportunity to develop a skill that will someday be just as expected and important as knowing to postpone a date when spontaneous ****ting is inevitable."
If people are offended by that they best stay away from the Isle of Man, as they have one on their flag: The problem with branding this symbol as offensive is that despite it being hijacked throughout history it's part of Indo-European heritage, in England it is known as the Fylfot.
I think their point was that the swastika-esque design coupled with the headline 'New Order' was a bit of a silly move.
Why should it be considered "a silly move"?, it was part of European culture long before WW2, It's used by the Irish all the time in the form of the triskel, you don't see people offended by that and Hindu's use the symbol. Over the top!
I said coupled with the headline 'New Order' it was a bit of a silly move. As Robbie said, it smacks a bit of historical ignorance.
I can see why some people might to be offended as has been stated earlier in the thread, but i would say most its a case of "oh no, others could be offended so i must be to fall in aswell and make myself look a decent human being".
