Parliament

[Blacker-than-Knight]

Look at it though mate, 1000 ago years every single person on the planet just about believed in some kind of god. We're making progress. Very slowly.

I think you are looking at Islam through your own eyes, this is a faith that is ingrained in the life of it's followers from birth, it is a faith that requires daily observance and obedience, there are still countries where the penalty for renouncing the faith is death, there is just no connotation within this that we can as outsiders understand how deep an individuals attachment to Islam is, we can't get why someone would act as a suicide bomber in the name of a religion which just shows how far apart we are in culture and understanding. One simple comparison bears this out, the IRA were willing to bomb civilians but they never used suicide bombs.

 

[Howe's about that then?]

Isis have declared war on several countries including us. This is fact.
Do you advocate just sitting back letting them do what the want cos we don't want to get involved?
Our security services are there to protect us and for too long they have been ham strung due to our by the book way of doing things.
The book needs throwing out and MI6 and MI5 need to just quietly be allowed to deal with the problem, no pissing about.
It's not a debate for me about what caused all this Islamic (and other religious) terrorism, it's a debate about our response.
As a religion I have no issue with Islam and I have loads of Turkish mates who share
My view too on the need to proactively deal with these cowards. Islam is about peace not
hate.

I don't know what MI5 or MI6 are or are not allowed to do but I assume they are stopping a lot of this kind of thing from happening and are already dealing with the problem quietly.
Not sure what MI5 etc could of done with regards to the nob head who committed yesterdays act.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

One simple comparison bears this out, the IRA were willing to bomb civilians but they never used suicide bombs.

They did though. The difference was that the suicide bombers didn't know they were carrying or driving a bomb into work or a public place. I suspect that if they had access to a population they didn't give a **** about then they would have tried to brainwash those people into doing it though.

 

[Beardsley's Rancid Sack]

I think you are looking at Islam through your own eyes, this is a faith that is ingrained in the life of it's followers from birth, it is a faith that requires daily observance and obedience, there are still countries where the penalty for renouncing the faith is death, there is just no connotation within this that we can as outsiders understand how deep an individuals attachment to Islam is, we can't get why someone would act as a suicide bomber in the name of a religion which just shows how far apart we are in culture and understanding. One simple comparison bears this out, the IRA were willing to bomb civilians but they never used suicide bombs.

Also mate, we have to remember the Provisional IRA had at its maximum 8-10,000 people in its organisation either ASU, affillates, smugglers, propagandists and so forth. Islamism is a worldwide movement, supported by countless millions of people and backed by enormous money that can inflitrate schools, councils, security, government - its a series of micro wars on all fronts - all with the same goal.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

They did though. The difference was that the suicide bombers didn't know they were carrying or driving a bomb into work or a public place. I suspect that if they had access to a population they didn't give a **** about then they would have tried to brainwash those people into doing it though.

You are talking bollocks there, the IRA never resorted to suicide bombing, they had a few **** ups where bombs detonated accidentally and they killed themselves but there was never any suicide vests, I remember talking to my uncle about eight years ago about this when he retired from the Guarda, he was at one time deputy head of the anti terrorist unit in Ireland, as he said whilst they were determined in the fight against the British it was just not in the mindset or psychology to use suicide bombing as a tactic, it would also have been difficult to find volunteers in the wider community as suicide is ingrained in the Catholic mind as a mortal sin, there is no reward in Heaven only immortal torment.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I think you are looking at Islam through your own eyes, this is a faith that is ingrained in the life of it's followers from birth, it is a faith that requires daily observance and obedience, there are still countries where the penalty for renouncing the faith is death, there is just no connotation within this that we can as outsiders understand how deep an individuals attachment to Islam is, we can't get why someone would act as a suicide bomber in the name of a religion which just shows how far apart we are in culture and understanding. One simple comparison bears this out, the IRA were willing to bomb civilians but they never used suicide bombs.

The world will be a very different place in 1000 years. It may take more than that for religion to die out. I haven't got a clue how long it will take, no one does. It will in my opinion happen though. My belief is that we become more intelligent as a species as time passes. The natural progression of that is that we discard things we don't need over time. My belief is we don't need religion because I see it as complete bullshit and based on make believe. I find it hard to believe that at some point in the future if the planet is still alive, that we will not have moved past such primitive notions. How that comes about is difficult to pinpoint. Certainly education will influence it. You have to remember how devout the whole world was across the planet to one god or another 1000 years ago.

I have no blindness to how the Islamic faith is ingrained. I am fully aware of it. I just think it is incredibly naive to think that it will endure past our natural progression as a species. I think that is very linear thinking based on what we see and experience right now. History tells us that with huge chunks of time, the world changes and so do its inhabitants. I have no idea how all of this will come to a head, or what will lead to the eradication of religion. All religion. I don't think it will just be educated out of us, there will be wars. Looking at it realistically, the cultural differences have us heading towards a major war which as hard as we may try through dialogue, is unavoidable. We may take a few steps back along the way. Eventually though our natural need to develop and progress will definitely endure longer than any silly religion. I fully believe that.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

The world will be a very different place in 1000 years. It may take more than that for religion to die out. I haven't got a clue how long it will take, no one does. It will in my opinion happen though. My belief is that we become more intelligent as a species as time passes. The natural progression of that is that we discard things we don't need over time. My belief is we don't need religion because I see it as complete bullshit and based on make believe. I find it hard to believe that at some point in the future if the planet is still alive, that we will not have moved past such primitive notions. How that comes about is difficult to pinpoint. Certainly education will influence it. You have to remember how devout the whole world was across the planet to one god or another 1000 years ago.

I have no blindness to how the Islamic faith is ingrained. I am fully aware of it. I just think it is incredibly naive to think that it will endure past our natural progression as a species. I think that is very linear thinking based on what we see and experience right now. History tells us that with huge chunks of time, the world changes and so do its inhabitants. I have no idea how all of this will come to a head, or what will lead to the eradication of religion. All religion. I don't think it will just be educated out of us, there will be wars. Looking at it realistically, the cultural differences have us heading towards a major war which as hard as we may try through dialogue, is unavoidable. We may take a few steps back along the way. Eventually though our natural need to develop and progress will definitely endure longer than any silly religion. I fully believe that.

It is more likely that the world will be a fundamental Islamic state in a 1000 years than some naïve intelligent utopia, it will be more like Kandahar than Star Trek.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

You are talking bollocks there, the IRA never resorted to suicide bombing, they had a few **** ups where bombs detonated accidentally and they killed themselves but there was never any suicide vests, I remember talking to my uncle about eight years ago about this when he retired from the Guarda, he was at one time deputy head of the anti terrorist unit in Ireland, as he said whilst they were determined in the fight against the British it was just not in the mindset or psychology to use suicide bombing as a tactic, it would also have been difficult to find volunteers in the wider community as suicide is ingrained in the Catholic mind as a mortal sin, there is no reward in Heaven only immortal torment.

I wasn't claiming they used it themselves. My point was that they used victims to unknowingly deliver bombs that would kill the deliverer too. If they could have found people who were disposable to knowingly do that then I suspect they would have. I don't believe for one second that the people who radicalise young muslims today give a **** about them They are pawns in a sick game. The IRA had pawns too. They might have been referred to by different terminology, but they used disposable 'foot soldiers' to carry out tasks that had a high chance of resulting in death or capture as much as any other terrorist organisation would. All terrorists are cowards who don't give a **** how they carry out their agenda, or who gets hurt along the way.

 

[Howe's about that then?]

Whilst I think Chaos could have been more tactful about it I kind of get his point.
It wasn't a massive act. Whilst it isn;t insignificant for the victims and their families it wasn't a massive act.
I agree with the tactic of just calling it an act of cowardness carried out by a coward rather than give it any real credibility which is what they want but better than calling them cowards perhaps don't report on it at all, and it is here I agree with Chaos. If their acts of cowardness are getting no media attention, are not causing any panic or hysteria then what is left for them with that as a tactic?
I know yesterday will mean everything to some families but as hard as it is just ignore it and carry on, don't give the coward ts the satisfaction. A proper war, we will win. Isolated attacks however frequent isn't going to stop us

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

It is more likely that the world will be a fundamental Islamic state in a 1000 years than some naïve intelligent utopia, it will be more like Kandahar than Star Trek.

I disagree. The advance and access of technology/education is happening at a far quicker rate than Islamic growth. The world becomes a smaller place with every passing day.

The only rider to all of this is our own evolution seems to have left a god-shaped hole seems to exist in our species’ neuropsychology. However atheism or non religious belief is on the rise in virtually every country on the planet. There is no doubt that science is cognitively unnatural due to our evolution in my mind. Many believe that there will always be people who believe and they will probably remain the majority. I don't agree with this because I believe our own growth and intelligence will eventually surpass this in-built quirk of our being.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Islamic fundamentalists are at war with the west and yet the west are not at war with them and until this changes, only one side are going to suffer for it.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

I disagree. The advance and access of technology/education is happening at a far quicker rate than Islamic growth. The world becomes a smaller place with every passing day.

The only rider to all of this is our own evolution seems to have left a god-shaped hole seems to exist in our species’ neuropsychology. However atheism or non religious belief is on the rise in virtually every country on the planet. There is no doubt that science is cognitively unnatural due to our evolution in my mind. Many believe that there will always be people who believe and they will probably remain the majority. I don't agree with this because I believe our own growth and intelligence will eventually surpass this in-built quirk of our being.

I think that god-shaped hole left by evolution is nothing more than a morality shaped hole. Evolution has taught the majority that the best chance of survival is to live in ways that are mutually beneficial to wider society. Of course, we all pick and choose our morality, even those who follow religions. It isn't uncommon to find Christians quoting scripture to defend homophobic ideas while driving round in a Mercedes and ignoring the fact that the bible mentions living austerely and giving your wealth to the poor far more often than it says homosexuality is a sin. Education is slowly teaching us that this morality is to do with being human and not to do with being religious. Different areas of the world are at different stages of that process, but I agree with you that the world is changing and that we will get there eventually. The world will be a very different place in 1000 years.

 

[Dorty Dogbreath]

That scumbag failed yesterday. He would have expected to have taken out a lot more people than he did. In comparison with Germany and in particular, France, we got off lightly.

Until the next time, ugh?

 

[Hung Drawn and Quartered]

That scumbag failed yesterday. He would have expected to have taken out a lot more people than he did. In comparison with Germany and in particular, France, we got off lightly.

Until the next time, ugh?

my concerns are and I have brought it to the attention of Newcastle United are
that once the game is over at St.James' 52000 people leave the stadium at once
all be it from 4 sides - but I walk down Barrack Road
and the amount of people walking down the paths, in the middle of the road, crossing the road etc
is in the thousands, what's to say someone (god help us) hires or steals a lorry of bus and just steams down the road
it would be utter carnage
I said that the the barrier's used for the Olympic games should be used as a buffer or stop all traffic for 10 mins to allow the
crowd to disperse before allowing the the traffic to move on
10mins hold up of traffic after each game can't be bad in the current climate

 

[Dorty Dogbreath]

my concerns are and I have brought it to the attention of Newcastle United are
that once the game is over at St.James' 52000 people leave the stadium at once
all be it from 4 sides - but I walk down Barrack Road
and the amount of people walking down the paths, in the middle of the road, crossing the road etc
is in the thousands, what's to say someone (god help us) hires or steals a lorry of bus and just steams down the road
it would be utter carnage
I said that the the barrier's used for the Olympic games should be used as a buffer or stop all traffic for 10 mins to allow the
crowd to disperse before allowing the the traffic to move on
10mins hold up of traffic after each game can't be bad in the current climate

The worrying thing is that we are even thinking about this happening....it shows how we've almost accepted this type of behaviour as normal.

Since when did we let these morons enter our minds with their (potentially) evil acts? We've been brainwashed to tolerate this terrorism, to tolerate this enemy within.

They might not have killed significant numbers but I don't think its for the lack of trying. And there is a huge amount of time, money and effort going into preventing attacks from happening and fostering 'community relations' with muslims.

Since when did we accept this bollox?

 

[haslam]

Look at it though mate, 1000 ago years every single person on the planet just about believed in some kind of god. We're making progress. Very slowly.

Except the kings, queens and pope. They knew it was all an elaborate money-making scheme to keep them safe from uprisings by the oppressed masses.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

I disagree. The advance and access of technology/education is happening at a far quicker rate than Islamic growth. The world becomes a smaller place with every passing day.

The only rider to all of this is our own evolution seems to have left a god-shaped hole seems to exist in our species’ neuropsychology. However atheism or non religious belief is on the rise in virtually every country on the planet. There is no doubt that science is cognitively unnatural due to our evolution in my mind. Many believe that there will always be people who believe and they will probably remain the majority. I don't agree with this because I believe our own growth and intelligence will eventually surpass this in-built quirk of our being.

You really don't get it do you, you are basing all your ideology on what you know here in the UK, one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world, Western Europe is a technological enclave essentially with much more technologically poor nations surrounding it within the European sphere, they cannot afford the advantages we have in technology or lifestyle, why else do you think so many want to come here from countries like Bulgaria or Romania. Have you any idea about the population growth pressures elsewhere, sub Saharan Africa in 1985 had a population under 500 million, 32 years later it now stands at over 1 billion and is expected to double again in the next 30 years, despite the famine, starvation and war Ethiopia at the time of Live Aid in 85 had a population of 46 million, now it is 104 million. In 60 years this area of Africa will have a population of over 4 billion, do you really think that they are all going to be sitting on their hands waiting or will they as we are already seeing head North for the juicy lands of Europe, technology and education will do nothing to alleviate this or stop it, we already tried education in Africa, all we achieved was making them more aware of how much we have and how little they have.

At the same time Islam is a growing religion, estimates vary between 1.7 and 2.1 billion followers, but they all agree that as each year passes Islam has more followers, in the UK we have turned away from Christianity at a time when Islam is on the increase here as well, at the last census there were some 2.66 million muslims in the UK, now it is estimated there are over 3 million. The Islamic faith does not let people leave lightly, unlike our Christian faith, as I pointed out earlier renouncing the Islamic faith is punishable by death in some countries and carries huge penalties elsewhere, no amount of technology will change these fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, it's telling how many younger people in the UK are turning to and converting to Islam and not just in the UK but in Europe as well.

Like the liberal left and their multiculturalism you have blind faith in your ideology that technology and education will win the day, sadly both are ignoring the reality and when it comes home to roost you will all be shocked at what most of us saw coming, I reckon in 60 years time this will be a shattered country in a shattered Europe, sold down the river by liberal values and the suppression of the ordinary people who will all be praying to Mecca, it's not climate change that will change the face of this world.

 

[Lord Jonjomort]

BTK, I'm not sure of all that, bud.

Totalitarian Capitalism vs. Islam? Money always wins. AT&T have more chance of destroying Islam than The Catholic Church ever did.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

You really don't get it do you, you are basing all your ideology on what you know here in the UK, one of the most technologically advanced societies in the world, Western Europe is a technological enclave essentially with much more technologically poor nations surrounding it within the European sphere, they cannot afford the advantages we have in technology or lifestyle, why else do you think so many want to come here from countries like Bulgaria or Romania. Have you any idea about the population growth pressures elsewhere, sub Saharan Africa in 1985 had a population under 500 million, 32 years later it now stands at over 1 billion and is expected to double again in the next 30 years, despite the famine, starvation and war Ethiopia at the time of Live Aid in 85 had a population of 46 million, now it is 104 million. In 60 years this area of Africa will have a population of over 4 billion, do you really think that they are all going to be sitting on their hands waiting or will they as we are already seeing head North for the juicy lands of Europe, technology and education will do nothing to alleviate this or stop it, we already tried education in Africa, all we achieved was making them more aware of how much we have and how little they have.

At the same time Islam is a growing religion, estimates vary between 1.7 and 2.1 billion followers, but they all agree that as each year passes Islam has more followers, in the UK we have turned away from Christianity at a time when Islam is on the increase here as well, at the last census there were some 2.66 million muslims in the UK, now it is estimated there are over 3 million. The Islamic faith does not let people leave lightly, unlike our Christian faith, as I pointed out earlier renouncing the Islamic faith is punishable by death in some countries and carries huge penalties elsewhere, no amount of technology will change these fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, it's telling how many younger people in the UK are turning to and converting to Islam and not just in the UK but in Europe as well.

Like the liberal left and their multiculturalism you have blind faith in your ideology that technology and education will win the day, sadly both are ignoring the reality and when it comes home to roost you will all be shocked at what most of us saw coming, I reckon in 60 years time this will be a shattered country in a shattered Europe, sold down the river by liberal values and the suppression of the ordinary people who will all be praying to Mecca, it's not climate change that will change the face of this world.

So, genuinely, what would you do about it? Or do you just think it's too late and we're already ****ed?

 

[Albert's Chip Shop]

The leaders of all religions are terrified of education and westernisation. The leaders will fight it because they know that education will lead people to see religion for what it is. We're lucky that Christian leaders appear out of touch when they speak up against lifestyles and ideas that they disagree with. Other religions will catch up eventually. It won't come from the leaders though. It will come from the followers seeing religion for the nonsense it is.

Turkey is a very good example of a Muslim country which embraces some Western ideals also. It's still divided between those wanting strict islamic law and to embrace the east... and those wanting to, for example drink beer and party and move more towards the West.. but it continues to be seen as one of the powerhouse economies of Europe.