Parliament

[Beardsley's Rancid Sack]

You'll have to forgive me if I have not recalled it correctly but I was going off my memory of the Brexit thread last year where (I think) you were referring to Birmingham as Birminghamistan or something like that and how Asians were the root cause of the problems in that area. I apologise if I've got that wrong as it was a long time ago and I didn't check back as to what you said but that was the impression I got from the conversation at the time. I could probably go back and have a look for it but I've wasted enough time arguing with strangers on the internet already.

Different conversation with someone else.

I have attempted a discussion with you but again you just dismiss things with abrupt rudeness. Makes no never mind to me.

 

[Q]

I don't agree that our security is soft.

If our security was soft then i would suggest we would have been attacked more often. France is probably a good example of a country who'se security is soft and why more attacks and larger scale attacks have occurred there.

I would venture to suggest we haven't been attacked so much or on a similar scale to France is because our security is amongst the best in the world.

We have a natural sea barrier which give added protection.

Free movement across shared borders on the mainland is the tool most often used by terrorists to evade capture and detection. This is a matter of public record.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

The sooner religion is demonised, made illegal and ultimately destroyed the better. Just get rid of the whole fcking lot.

I don't know if such a radical action would be effective. I tend to think you'd just throw the world into chaos if you demonised something billions of people believe quite strongly in. Let them be.

I think you just have to be accepting that our development as a species is a much longer game, as frustrating as that may be. Unfortunately you are alive at a time when religion still has, for some crazy reason, a very strong foothold in the world. We're probably 1000's of years away from truly moving forward and realising our potential as a species. When we do I fully believe that religion will be one of the many things consigned to the annals of history. Sadly trying to speed up that process through radical change will probably set us back even further. There may be a few wars etc before all this moves on. More likely it will be educated out of us in time.

I sympathise with those affected by the events of yesterday. I just struggle to see it as anything particularly shocking with the current climate across the planet. You can't just dismiss religion as not being the problem as far as I'm concerned. It most certainly is part of the problem in my opinion - its just not THE problem. I am not going to pinpoint a single religion either as they're all fruit loopy in their construction as far as I'm concerned. Islam does seem a bit more extreme and less accepting. However the other religions are just as stupid on things like homosexuals.

The bigger problem is that religion is just one cog in a very complicated machine. We just have to get on, do what we can in terms of security but accept that this type of stuff does happen. I'm not at either extreme. I don't believe in some knee jerk heavy handed solution through killing folk (seems a bit neanderthal to me). Nor am I naive enough to think we can hippyly educate our way past all the things in the world that make this kind of stuff happen within mine or my childrens lifetime. This is sadly part and parcel of life currently.

You know what I've moved on by this morning rightly or wrongly. I've got **** to do today. I'm only here for another 30-50 years most likely. I'm gonna enjoy today, and each day after that. I haven't got time to waste time on negative ****e.

 

[General Lee Speaking]

I don't know if such a radical action would be effective. I tend to think you'd just throw the world into chaos if you demonised something billions of people believe quite strongly in. Let them be.

I think you just have to be accepting that our development as a species is a much longer game, as frustrating as that may be. Unfortunately you are alive at a time when religion still has, for some crazy reason, a very strong foothold in the world. We're probably 1000's of years away from truly moving forward and realising our potential as a species. When we do I fully believe that religion will be one of the many things consigned to the annals of history. Sadly trying to speed up that process through radical change will probably set us back even further. There may be a few wars etc before all this moves on. More likely it will be educated out of us in time.

I sympathise with those affected by the events of yesterday. I just struggle to see it as anything particularly shocking with the current climate across the planet. You can't just dismiss religion as not being the problem as far as I'm concerned. It most certainly is part of the problem in my opinion - its just not THE problem. I am not going to pinpoint a single religion either as they're all fruit loopy in their construction as far as I'm concerned. Islam does seem a bit more extreme and less accepting. However the other religions are just as stupid on things like homosexuals.

The bigger problem is that religion is just one cog in a very complicated machine. We just have to get on, do what we can in terms of security but accept that this type of stuff does happen. I'm not at either extreme. I don't believe in some knee jerk heavy handed solution through killing folk (seems a bit neanderthal to me). Nor am I naive enough to think we can hippyly educate our way past all the things in the world that make this kind of stuff happen within mine or my childrens lifetime. This is sadly part and parcel of life currently.

You know what I've moved on by this morning rightly or wrongly. I've got **** to do today. I'm only here for another 30-50 years most likely. I'm gonna enjoy today, and each day after that. I haven't got time to waste time on negative ****e.

All of this.

 

[Beardsley's Rancid Sack]

I think you just have to be accepting that our development as a species is a much longer game, as frustrating as that may be. Unfortunately you are alive at a time when religion still has, for some crazy reason, a very strong foothold in the world. We're probably 1000's of years away from truly moving forward and realising our potential as a species. When we do I fully believe that religion will be one of the many things consigned to the annals of history..

I can never see religion truly being consigned to history mate. The thing is - for Islam to be dragged into the modern world, it would take a reformation. Our particular Reformation in Western Europe lasted for over a century, resulted in unbelievable destruction, savagery and slaughter. The Islamic reformation - if there ever is one - would be similar. The thing I worry about the most, is that this turmoil will not be played out in the Middle East, the sub-continent, etc but right in the heart of Europe. Our suicidal immigration policies along with many of politicians neo-liberal outlook of not confronting the problems will be the main causes of this. Remember, Lebanon use to be a stable country with a Christian majority and Beirut the 'Paris of the east' in the 1950's/60's and after massive Islamic inroads, wars, Sunni/Shia divide - it is but a shadow of its former self and should be used as a warning to western nations.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

I remember in the late 70's our concerns were with the IRA, Bader Meinhoff in Germany and the Basque ETA movement, nobody talked about Islamic Terrorism at that time, this is a modern movement fuelled by certain religious intolerances and sadly fostered within a community in the heart of our own people that is as separate from our Western culture as any in the heartlands of Pakistan or Afghanistan, the vast majority will not involve themselves with an act such as yesterday but they stand apart from us in their feelings and response to it. Even now the authorities mutter platitudes and twist themselves out of shape to avoid the use of those fatal words Islamic Terrorist, I watched a video of an obviously pro British Front man speaking about the incident yesterday and the first journalist to shove a microphone into his face repudiated him for linking the attack to the Islamic community, yes he was offensive by our media standards but the constant suppression of opposing views has to stop and we have to have the real debate and dialogue that we need along with what are we going to do, that could end up being nothing in the end just business as usual.

I agree about needing to start real debate and real dialogue. I think one of the big differences between terrorism today and terrorism that we grew up with is technology. The IRA were always able to attract disaffected teens and young men and women to their cause. We were lucky that their recruitment was pretty much confined to the areas where activists were living and operating though. Today we have twitter and facebook and a dark web full of uncontrolled propaganda. Islamic Terrorism isn't particularly new. It was always there, especially in countries where western powers operated and influenced the local government. The difference was that those involved in terrorism had no way of recruiting people born half way across the globe, staring into a phone as they sat alone in their bedroom.

 

[JakartaToon]

I agree about needing to start real debate and real dialogue. I think one of the big differences between terrorism today and terrorism that we grew up with is technology. The IRA were always able to attract disaffected teens and young men and women to their cause. We were lucky that their recruitment was pretty much confined to the areas where activists were living and operating though. Today we have twitter and facebook and a dark web full of uncontrolled propaganda. Islamic Terrorism isn't particularly new. It was always there, especially in countries where western powers operated and influenced the local government. The difference was that those involved in terrorism had no way of recruiting people born half way across the globe, staring into a phone as they sat alone in their bedroom.

So that's what you have been doing when you should have been updating the Prediction League.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

As far as deporting people is concerned, the rights and wrongs of it aren't even an issue. The fact is that every terrorist attack in this country since (and including) 7/7 has been carried out by British people. We can't deport British people we don't like and give our undesirables to other countries. The globe isn't pink any more. We need to find effective ways of dealing with them. Any life lost to terrorism is one too many. However, I think our security services do a pretty good job of keeping us safe. These attacks rightly receive a lot of media attention. They are though, fortunately, still very rare occurrences.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

So that's what you have been doing when you should have been updating the Prediction League.

??

 

[YankMag]

All Islam needs is modernization before it takes a cut to the jugular. The same thing happened to catholicism in the US.

 

[JakartaToon]

??

Sitting alone in your room staring at your phone waiting to be recruited by ISIL.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

Sitting alone in your room staring at your phone waiting to be recruited by ISIL.

While I might have attracted some interest for being a sleeper, it would soon go away once they realised that I am just in fact a lazy twat!!

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

All Islam needs is modernization before it takes a cut to the jugular. The same thing happened to catholicism in the US.

And therein lies the answer to many of the western world's problems. It all boils down to supply and demand. That's not a capitalist notion, it's a human one. We want an end to terror and the people being recruited want something worthwhile to believe in. In their unmodernised world many of them aren't given anything worthwhile to believe in which creates the perfect vacuum for extremist religions. The only teaching some of these people receive is that of radicalisation. We want an end to uncontrolled immigration and any human just wants somewhere to live securely and comfortably with life's necessities. At the moment the supply of that lifestyle exists in the west and not in their places of birth. I appreciate that is very simplistic, but at the same time I think it would be a massive help if we started addressing the issues of why these things happen and not just the fact that we don't like them happening.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I can never see religion truly being consigned to history mate. The thing is - for Islam to be dragged into the modern world, it would take a reformation. Our particular Reformation in Western Europe lasted for over a century, resulted in unbelievable destruction, savagery and slaughter. The Islamic reformation - if there ever is one - would be similar. The thing I worry about the most, is that this turmoil will not be played out in the Middle East, the sub-continent, etc but right in the heart of Europe. Our suicidal immigration policies along with many of politicians neo-liberal outlook of not confronting the problems will be the main causes of this. Remember, Lebanon use to be a stable country with a Christian majority and Beirut the 'Paris of the east' in the 1950's/60's and after massive Islamic inroads, wars, Sunni/Shia divide - it is but a shadow of its former self and should be used as a warning to western nations.

Look at it though mate, 1000 ago years every single person on the planet just about believed in some kind of god. We're making progress. Very slowly.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

All Islam needs is modernization before it takes a cut to the jugular. The same thing happened to catholicism in the US.

I think you way underestimate the adherence of muslims to their faith, if anything contact with Western culture has determined the leaders of the Islamic faith into even more entrenched attitudes about the evils of our culture, there is no way in which the notion of modernisation would be of any impact in this.

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

I think you way underestimate the adherence of muslims to their faith, if anything contact with Western culture has determined the leaders of the Islamic faith into even more entrenched attitudes about the evils of our culture, there is no way in which the notion of modernisation would be of any impact in this.

The leaders of all religions are terrified of education and westernisation. The leaders will fight it because they know that education will lead people to see religion for what it is. We're lucky that Christian leaders appear out of touch when they speak up against lifestyles and ideas that they disagree with. Other religions will catch up eventually. It won't come from the leaders though. It will come from the followers seeing religion for the nonsense it is.

 

[Freddd]

We have a natural sea barrier which give added protection.

Free movement across shared borders on the mainland is the tool most often used by terrorists to evade capture and detection. This is a matter of public record.

This is certainly a factor but so are the facts that:

a. British intelligence services are better than most of their counterparts;
b. The divide between mainstream French society and the Algeiran/Arabic ghettos (I think the use of the term is fair) is much deeper than between mainstream British society and any of its Islamic subcommunities

 

[Beardsley's Rancid Sack]

Look at it though mate, 1000 ago years every single person on the planet just about believed in some kind of god. We're making progress. Very slowly.

Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide. What progress will we have if Islam dominates the world in say a century. Are we building more Churches? No. Are we building more Synagogues? No. Mosques are being built at alarming rate across the Western world. Islamic birth rates are through the roof. I appreciate optimism mate, I really do but as Islam expands you can forget about a secular society and the freedoms we take for granted in the West will be extinguished. People might look at the situation now and say 'Hey we can contain this' but look at many European major cities that within 50 years or less have accrued an Islamic population of 20% or more. We have never known anything like this before. In Britain alone, the Islamic population has doubled every decade. Since the last census three million, I think it would be closer to 4.5 million now. What happens when they become say, 20 percent of the population? What more demands will they enforce then?

If these numbers don't offer some concern I don't know what else to say. Within a 1,000 years, Western Europe has not seen this vast population change with such alacrity - despite what liberal bullshit artists will say and myths they will spin. Between the 300 years of the Huguenout migration in the 1600s to the 1950's - our immigration in the last 20 years dwarfs it considerably. Its sheer insanity and it is simply not sustainable.

 

[Freddd]

Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide. What progress will we have if Islam dominates the world in say a century. Are we building more Churches? No. Are we building more Synagogues? No. Mosques are being built at alarming rate across the Western world. Islamic birth rates are through the roof. I appreciate optimism mate, I really do but as Islam expands you can forget about a secular society and the freedoms we take for granted in the West will be extinguished. People might look at the situation now and say 'Hey we can contain this' but look at many European major cities that within 50 years or less have accrued an Islamic population of 20% or more. We have never known anything like this before. In Britain alone, the Islamic population has doubled every decade. Since the last census three million, I think it would be closer to 4.5 million now. What happens when they become say, 20 percent of the population? What more demands will they enforce then?

If this numbers don't offer some concern I don't know what else to say. Within a 1,000 years, Western Europe has not seen this vast population change with such alacrity - despite what liberal bullshit artists will say and myths they will spin. Between the 300 years of the Huguenout migration in the 1600s to the 1950's - our immigration in the last 20 years dwarfs it considerably. Its sheer insanity and it is simply not sustainable.

You mean we'll get relegated and sell all our best players ?

 

[Joelinton's Right Foot]

Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide. What progress will we have if Islam dominates the world in say a century. Are we building more Churches? No. Are we building more Synagogues? No. Mosques are being built at alarming rate across the Western world. Islamic birth rates are through the roof. I appreciate optimism mate, I really do but as Islam expands you can forget about a secular society and the freedoms we take for granted in the West will be extinguished. People might look at the situation now and say 'Hey we can contain this' but look at many European major cities that within 50 years or less have accrued an Islamic population of 20% or more. We have never known anything like this before. In Britain alone, the Islamic population has doubled every decade. Since the last census three million, I think it would be closer to 4.5 million now. What happens when they become say, 20 percent of the population? What more demands will they enforce then?

If these numbers don't offer some concern I don't know what else to say. Within a 1,000 years, Western Europe has not seen this vast population change with such alacrity - despite what liberal bullshit artists will say and myths they will spin. Between the 300 years of the Huguenout migration in the 1600s to the 1950's - our immigration in the last 20 years dwarfs it considerably. Its sheer insanity and it is simply not sustainable.

It's a two way street though. We can't turn back the clock on the fact that the world is a smaller place now. As well as immigration figures being higher, migration figures are also at their highest ever levels. More British born people move abroad now than at any time - including when we were colonising the world or when countries such as America, Canada and Australia were encouraging people to move there - some of them even paying people to do so.

Immigration levels to the west in general are unsustainable. We couldn't survive without a healthy level of immigration now, but at the same time we can't cope with everyone from poor countries wanting to move here. The only way to stop it is for governments to work together to take away the demand. A big step towards that would be to develop more ethical policies towards trade deals poorer countries, stop shoring up corrupt regimes because it helps our national sales and to actively help some of these countries root out corruption and develop to a standard that less people will risk everything to travel to the west.