So you put all of what happened on Bush Snr and Jnr's and Blair's watches down to religion Dribs?
Oil, Oil and more Oil took preference over religion from the west's point of view but the view from the other side was almost entirely religion.
Off Topic Paris Attacks !
- Thread starter HugoEkitikeN01
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
So you put all of what happened on Bush Snr and Jnr's and Blair's watches down to religion Dribs?
Oil, Oil and more Oil took preference over religion from the west's point of view but the view from the other side was almost entirely religion.
I'm not arguing with any of that though. If we're talking about extremists and terrorists everything you've said is fine by me. But I was responding to the point about a muslim in a newspaper saying Muslims aren't doing enough. That's why I replied by saying many more muslims (with first hand experience and better knowledge than either of us) will say our foreign policy is far more of a problem. My point was surely we should listen to both. I dare say changing our actions abroad will have a far greater impact on changing mindsets than going on a march. Although I accept both are a good thing.
Regarding your post above, I think there is a "them and us" feeling. How that comes about is much more layered. Partly down to the fact that there needs to be better integration between muslim and non-muslim communities. And partly because of a sense of alienation and dare I say betrayal or prejudice (even if misconceived) by the muslim population. 30 to 40 years ago we were seeing the same sentiment (although on a smaller scale) with the black community. Brixton and Tottenham being examples. You still see it in America with the shooting of black teenagers by police. This is an important point that shouldn't be trivialised. If certain groups feel disinfranchised in the country they live in, bcos they feel people of the same race or religion are being unfairly treated, things like national loyalty becomes secondary bcos emotion and a sense of "not belonging" takes over. The feeling that "well they are against us" so we have to look after ourselves. Both sides have a duty to dispell this. And I don't think we do a particularly good job of doing it any more than the muslim community in all honesty.
Didn't say they could, anymore than IS. They are just an example of some using christianity today.
A look at who drives the Republican party would be another example of people with a twisted religious identity who can no wait to control the US army to expand on thier "righteous" path.
Oh don't get me wrong. "The war on terror" might as well have been named "the war on muslims" the way it was portrayed by our govts. That and internal security policies akin to racial profiling. Alienation was certainly caused.
But....you can not choose to live in a country while denouncing it as evil and holding Muslim states (that you parents left) on a pedastal to be infuriated about when they are attacked. Its not just about what our govt does. Those % in that survey (i haven't seen the tone or weight of the questions I must declare) are not small and they raise valid questions about a rejection of our very culture and not just anger at our govts actions in other countries. We are the same culture we have always been. Why live in it if you see it in such a total negative way? Like I said I wouldnt live in Iran!
Its where I'll be accused of sounding BNP here but if you don't like anything about the culture you are in..(as opposed to having specific issues like we all do) then leave to one of those great countries ran by people who believe in the same social structure you do.
Its not the extreme 5% and its not the homegrown totally converted to our culture % that are the issue. Its the % that want to live here but will not assimilate in any way at all...blaming everyone but themselves for a lack of integration.
There are differences between evangelization of Christian and Muslim. For an example the missionaries went to Africa to convert
people by doing good work , example building schools and educating people, and Islam went there to force them to accept them.
They are doing the same thing in Europe now "accept Islam or you are dead". Very soon you are going to be judged by Sharia Law
in London, Manchester and Birmingham. If you do not like something you have to speak out
people by doing good work , example building schools and educating people, and Islam went there to force them to accept them.
They are doing the same thing in Europe now "accept Islam or you are dead". Very soon you are going to be judged by Sharia Law
in London, Manchester and Birmingham. If you do not like something you have to speak out
The Chinese community in this country have been here far longer than Muslims, have far greater historical gripes with the west (and Imperial Britain, in particular) and have 'suffered', if that's the word, discrimination and prejudice for as long as anyone else. Apart from occasionally giving you food-poisoning in their chippies, they haven't abused the country they were grateful to for accepting them and giving them opportunity, and certainly haven't put their own 'faith' on a pedestal above the traditions and customs of the host country they now call their own. And if it ever did get that bad here, I think the solution for us would be to get on a ****ing plane and go back to Hong Kong before we start murdering innocent citizens.
Absolutely horrendous! WTF are these morons on? 
I accept that to some people, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Nelson Mandela is seen by many to be a terrorist and I respect that view as an opinion I don't agree with; to me his fight was for an equal South Africa with no apartheid that we in the UK had no right to ignore because we initiated that flawed class culture of white over black in a South African nation as part of our 'Empire', but today these idiots in IS are attacking their own and those like France who are trying to help those own: how can that be freedom fighting? What are they trying to free exactly? These nations are already independent, ungoverned by UK, US or France.
So UK, US and France are trying to help those who want a democracy in these nations. Well?? Got a problem with that? Yeah; and these morons get what they want then later some other dickheads come along and say well I want something else you IS pricks don't want then there's more aggro and hey presto it's another ****ing war!
What they are 'fighting' against is democracy. Why the ****? Democracy isn't perfect but it isn't a ****ing dictatorship, either.
They are slurring Islam and sadly there are some deluded balloons who think they're right; Brits, too, FFS! British Islamic extremists should **** off and get their jobs/benefits in their Pakistan et al IMO; though they won't 'cos the standard of living is less; they're not ****ing soft, them!
Any plank who gets caught up in Islamic extremism and the thought of 'paradise' should think on: when God, or Allah, gets his hands on them after they blow their arses there'll be no paradise, it'll be a living hell for them. Carry on, but don't take innocents with you.
The west isn't trying to rule these people as they might think. We have no right to that; we interfere 'cos we want peace. If that isn't good enough then too bad. That's one less blown up terrorist we have to worry about.
I accept that to some people, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Nelson Mandela is seen by many to be a terrorist and I respect that view as an opinion I don't agree with; to me his fight was for an equal South Africa with no apartheid that we in the UK had no right to ignore because we initiated that flawed class culture of white over black in a South African nation as part of our 'Empire', but today these idiots in IS are attacking their own and those like France who are trying to help those own: how can that be freedom fighting? What are they trying to free exactly? These nations are already independent, ungoverned by UK, US or France.
So UK, US and France are trying to help those who want a democracy in these nations. Well?? Got a problem with that? Yeah; and these morons get what they want then later some other dickheads come along and say well I want something else you IS pricks don't want then there's more aggro and hey presto it's another ****ing war!
What they are 'fighting' against is democracy. Why the ****? Democracy isn't perfect but it isn't a ****ing dictatorship, either.
They are slurring Islam and sadly there are some deluded balloons who think they're right; Brits, too, FFS! British Islamic extremists should **** off and get their jobs/benefits in their Pakistan et al IMO; though they won't 'cos the standard of living is less; they're not ****ing soft, them!
Any plank who gets caught up in Islamic extremism and the thought of 'paradise' should think on: when God, or Allah, gets his hands on them after they blow their arses there'll be no paradise, it'll be a living hell for them. Carry on, but don't take innocents with you.
The west isn't trying to rule these people as they might think. We have no right to that; we interfere 'cos we want peace. If that isn't good enough then too bad. That's one less blown up terrorist we have to worry about.
Last edited:
Agreed, it's often the case that there is no interpretation going on. Many Maddrassas' enforce rote learning of the Quran which really doesn't offer much hope that people will ever challenge what they read.^ this
The problem with driving change within Islam is that there's no structure within the religion. Any crank can set himself up as a cleric and there's no collective view on how to interpret the Quran. There's therefore segmentation within the religion and a vast spectrum of opinion from the moderate to the uber extreme.
All local communities can do is to educate their own and ensure that the radical preachers of hate are shunned
The reports indicating that one of the terrorists had a Syrian passport and landed on Lesbos in Oct reinforces my view that Merkel was mad to fuel a great migration. Irrespective of whether it's true it is far better to have drawn them straight from refugee camps after some security checks are made like what we have agreed to do.
I'm no supporter of Cameron but I think he was right to say the UK will take refugees from the camps after security checks. Merkel just opened the floodgates with what she said and it is inevitable that IS members will take advantage of the chaos that has ensued.
Did someone actually claim Isis has nothing to do with Islam? Wow! That's as mental as claiming all Muslims are terrorists.
RIP to those who lost their lives.
RIP to those who lost their lives.
Indeed they did, 2 of them.
Ironically, neither realised that (to my knowledge) the only Muslim who's partaken in the thread, agreed with me.
The Chinese are a great example of how to integrate while retaining your own identity.
And why are people still blaming the West as of its entirely our fault? Why ignore the role Saudi Arabia plays in all Islamic Terrorism? Bankrolling these groups while trying to maintain links with the West, because we buy their product (oil). All the while the Saudis spread their hard-line version of Islam and fund these attacks from a distance.
Cut off their supply lines, the nation that's supporting them.
Cut off their supply lines, the nation that's supporting them.