I must admit I am very surprised by the current split of the voting. I had assumed that those of us wanting him to stay would be in the minority.
Faith in fans restored somewhat, sacking the manager who led us to 5th, and the QF's of Europa League would just be ridiculous...
I know i'm old fashioned about this, but i am proud that we gave the Europa League all we could. Playing in Europe is an honour and regardless of how far we are expected to go in it I would always want our manager to play strong teams and I am glad he did. That bought him a lot of goodwill in my book. Plus we cannot ignore the fact that last season we were fighting for a champions league place. I trust that he will learn from this season and that next year things will be better, and realistic progress will be seen to have been made.
Absolutely. Manager of the year last year. Suddenly a numpty this season. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, but a sacking would be crazy.
He should stay. Looking at the sub bench, who else could have come on? First half we held possession and the game plan worked. Second half they closed us down and we couldn't match them. One more year with investment in the summer. If next year is more of the same...good bye.
Second half he could have brought Anita on. His technical ability is not far off of Cabaye's standard. He keeps possession ticking over nicely, something Liverpool paid 15 million for when they signed Joe Allen. For me just the pure fact that Anita is constantly over looked shows the style of football that Pardew wants us to play. He simply doesn't have the tactical nous, bravery, courage etc etc to get us playing the football that best suits the players at our disposal. Having said that, as I've said on another thread, at this stage of the season it's points and not performances that count. So regardless of wins for Norwich, Sunderland & Stoke today the bottom line is we're a game closer to the end of the season and a point closer to survival given that we drew and Wigan lost.
Have to say I looked at the bench and thought "there are three options; Campbell, Anita or Be Arfa" However I have to be honest I was perplexed as to what he should do. The problem being Anita and Campbell are tiny. Its not so much what Pardew wanted us to do - we played excellent passing football 1st half because of how he set us up. It was the fact we were under a bombardment from WBA who went very direct and were encouraged by putting balls into the box and Elliott looking far from comfortable. Saylor and Mbiwa have to take it on the chin for me. They **** themselves early doors 2nd when Shane Long appeared and decided to set up stall on the edge of the box for fear of him getting in behind. This isolated Cisse again and we just invited trouble. The bench were screaming for them to get out but they only did so with 10mins to go. Its alright everyone claiming the manager was tactically inept and playing hoofball, but the first half seems to contradict that. It seems we are happy to let the players off scot free every week and ignore that they are lacking in game management skills. Is Cabaye really a captain? He seems to disappear when the going gets tough rather than being able to calmly assess what we are doing wrong. Saylor and Mbiwa should have been able to stop and think "we need to get out of here and squeeze the game". It is partly down to the season we've had and a lack of confidence, but I also think we lack real game knowledge when Colo is absent. The manager has not had a good season, but on yesterdays viewing he looked to have us well drilled and well set up to deal with the opposition. I think we lacked the mental fortitude and in game management skills as a bunch of players. It was timid stuff. If Colo does indeed go, we'll need to replace his experience within the squad because we are sadly lacking. As you say it was actually a good point.
I have to point out that comparing Pardew with Sir Alex Ferguson, Moyes etc etc should result in sectioning... It's nuts, even for a sport where ridiculous comparisons are the cliche of the day. I don't mean "look what they've come to achieve", but if you're going to compare in such an insulting manner to those men, why not show some understanding of their respective situations? Sir Alex Ferguson's lone "horrendous season" (1989/90) came on the back of years of constant redevelopment of the squad (Pardew has been given the same nucleus for a while), and was set in the foreground to some of the biggest technical, scouting and coaching changes in the club's history (which was part of the set-up to their current dominance... you reckon Pardew is doing that? Are you going to compare the club going Carbon neutral to what Ferguson himself oversaw? ). The only similarity is that some of our key players have been injured (don't think they were as bad as Man Utd's season). One more thing to think about, they'd only ever been mid-table before that disappointment, not 5th... and oh yeah, they won the flipping FA cup as well What's Pardew won?... And I shouldn't have to take anybody through Moyes' history. I doubt he's spent anywhere near as much in the entire time he's been manager as we've spent on players under Pardew. So, if we're ignoring the progressive and attacking mentality of those manager's compared with Pardew's one-dimensional (Tash said predictable, and I agree whole-heartedly) guff, it seems silly to suggest that they could ever be in the same bracket. Hopelessly optimistic, and I don't think it's fair to brow-beat anyone who disagrees with a positive image of Pardew, on the basis of this one exceptionally weak comparison. When Pardew wins anything, then comeback and say that he deserves to be mentioned next to Ferguson in any sentence that doesn't start with "And here's a list of people who have held the title of football manager;"... Until then, naaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Pardew in, in, in,in,in,,in,in,in,in,in,in,in,in. Whilst he has made mistakes, it's not fully his fault he can't grow a decent beard, in fact I give him a lot of credit for trying. It's well known that follicle genetics play a large part in one's ability to have consistent facial growth, take my brother for example, he could look like David Bellamy after two days of not shaving however I have an area on the left hand side of my chin that ends up a fraction sparse of the bristly stuff. I wouldn't mind betting that Pardew's dad had the ability to grow a magnificent beard and Pardew's son and heir will also be blessed with the same talent. I therefore conclude that our current manager should not be ridiculed for allowing the pursuit of footballing credence to get in the way of far more important issues. Thankfully there a few of us on here that understand what Pardew is trying to achieve and not call for him to be dismissed on one poor season's growth in the league, let's not forget how distinguished he looked when pitting his beard growing wits against some of the more acknowledged stubbly chins in Europe.
You're completely missing the point. Its not about comparing them as managers. Its about comparing the point at which they were at when their respective chairman/owners had a decision to make. The hilarious thing is you are going on about the attacking mentality of Ferguson or Moyes, guess what the fans were complaining about at the time when they were struggling? Not being attacking, playing crap football and having no cohesion to their play. Ring any bells? Sorry but the comparisons are completely valid, its just not convienient to those who dislike Pardew. We'll take SAF out of it for arguments sake because he had had some success up in Scotland with Aberdeen. I find it laughable though that you bring budgets into it, SAF spent an absolute fortune at the biggest club in the land bar none, and yet still struggled. The placards were out, the dissenting voices high in number. He did not have one bad season either, you'll have to check again. It was back to back poor league seasons with an FA Cup win rescuing his job. This after lavishing money on the most sought after players around, a luxury Pardew does not have either in quality or numbers. Relatively speaking given the size of Man U and their budgets, Pardew doesn't know the meaning of a poor season in comparison. Nobody is suggesting Pardew will now go on and win the league again and again, a relative success would be achieving some consistent top 8 finishes. We'll use Moyes as the barometer though. You know what Moyes had won when he was struggling at Everton by any chance? A division 2 title at Preston. You're massively over estimating the budgets Pardew has had too. Lets not forget he was sent into a PL and Europa season with much the same problem Moyes was, a squad with quality but low on numbers. Moyes has been provided with funds, he just hasn't been afforded a budget to have depth to break the top 4. Don't mistake the two as Feillani, Jelavic, Miralles, Yobo, Wright, Kroldrup, Davies, Beattie, Arteta, Johnson, Lecott, Jagielka, Yakubu, Baines, Heitinga etc suggest otherwise. A fair few of those are in excess of 5m and 10m. Pardew has not spent massive amounts, he has spent the Andy Carroll money. Something which has skewed many a view. To suggest Moyes has not spent much suggests you haven't even bothered to look. A quick look at Feillani 15m, Yakubu 12m, Beattie 8.5m, Jelavic 7.5m, Baines 6m, Miralles 5m-7.5m, Andy Johnson 8.5m, Kroldrup 5m, would quickly tell you the bloke has spent money. He has bought well. He just hasn't been afforded the opportunity to spend the money the Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man C, Liverpool to break that top bracket. I'm sure I read somewhere he has spent on average 12m a season with a net spend of 20m. I wonder where Pards is? He has been consistent after being afforded time. That is essentially is the point I and others are making. Its highly relevant because after finishing 7th (Pardew 5th), the following season he managed 17th, lowest total in their history (probably similar for Pards this season), and they wanted him out. His football was seen as too physical and too direct. It is quite eerie how similar the situations are. I'd section those who think they are not similar.
We'll essentially always play the style of football that our manager (in this case Pardew) allows us to play. It's all well and good saying when confidence is low players go more direct, or West Brom bombarded us so we went direct, or we were tired from Europe we so we went direct etc. Bottom line is you'll never see Wigan go direct, no matter how low their position in the table and the reason for that is their manager. Martinez instils a belief in to his players that 're playing football the "right way" if you like, they believe that is the best way for them to achieve positive results. I remember a game last season when a Swansea player (Rangel I believe) played a pass across his on box, it got intercepted and they conceded. Rodgers post match interview was along the lines of "It's my fault, I encourage us to play football at all times and in the future we need to ensure we're giving the player on the ball more options". I admire that approach, those two managers have a philosophy that they want to ingrain in their teams and they don't deviate from that. Wigan had 63% possession yesterday, I doubt we've ever achieved that in the whole of Pardew's reign. Granted possession doesn't win you games, and just knocking it back to the keeper, to defender, to the defensive midfielder and back again etc isn't always the most exciting to watch, but it relieves pressure unlike going long and direct. I think that's my biggest problem with Pardew, he doesn't seem to to have a set philosophy, if his game plan is to go long when we're losing or under the cosh (I can only assume this is the game plan seeing as Shola is ALWAYS brought on) why are we signing players like Anita, Bigi and other migits of the football world. Everyone wants to see good football, if that's not our approach then fair enough as long as it's getting results. It will only get results if we sign players that suit said system/tactical approach. However all of our midfielder's minus Jonas suit a passing, high tempo pressing game. When things are going against us it's the same sub every time from Pardew, on comes Shola and we smash 70/80 yard balls up the pitch. Just for once why not bring on Anita & Campbell, Anita helps keep the ball and relieve pressure and Campbell has pace to go in behind and again relieve pressure/counter attack. Shola offers neither of these. It's Pardew's insistence on trying the same first 11, the same formation, the same subs & the same hoofball tactics when we're losing/need a goal that have made me lose confidence in him. I admire those who say stick with him, I wish I felt the same but I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel with him. I also think his comments regarding addressing the set pieces in the summer were disgusting given he was meant to do that last summer. Mentioning Sunderland could only dream of being in Europe is also a touch embarrassing, we know we're bigger than them, mentioning them in that way only serves to make us look like we have a small club mentality. He's also said he doesn't care where we finish now as long as we stay up, and that's after weeks of saying he wants us to attack the top ten. Sadly all of the above smacks of a desperate man who is slowly but surely feeling the pressure and losing the plot.
We had 66% possession against Sunderland. ... however as you quite rightly point out it doesn't necessarily win games.
Fair to say we massively disagree and I maintain you completely and utterly miss the object of the comparison. You call the NHS?, I'll just get straight on the blower to the Roycroft, they'll have a bed ready for you in no time . Its not moving the goalposts to suit talking relative comparisons, its common sense to me. There are not many examples in the modern game of giving managers time. So finding one in the PL of a club of a similar size to Newcastle is simply impossible. You have to look to bigger clubs like Everton and Man U and then temper the expectations. Moving the goalposts, there is no better example than ignoring the obvious similarities between Moyes situation and Pardews current one. We sell to buy! Hence a net spend under Pardew of probably less than 10m. You would happily watch crap football under one manager but not under another? SAFs direct football up to Hughes was no better afterall. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I suspect you'd have been one of the ones wrongly calling for his head in 89 if you'd been a red devil fan. Pardews time at Reading (one of the few places he's had longer than 2 seasons) dispels your assertion that he has one season of improvement and then failure. Indeed West Ham doesn't really back that up either. Had a average first season losing a play off final, a decent 2nd with promotion, an excellent 3rd with 9th place PL finish, and was having a poor 4th when sacked at Xmas. Charlton - he was not responsible for their relegation was he? He had half a season to save a team who had 12 points and were widely regarded as sub standard. Not a great surprise. He took a poor job for me, they were on a downward spiral which he failed to reverse. His time at Southampton was a success. His relationship with their owner was not. Paints a slightly different picture to yours overall though. Did well at Reading by anyones standards, did well at West Ham but wasn't afforded time to get over a poor period, did poorly at Charlton under difficult circumstances, did well at Southampton and has done well at Newcastle. We clearly have polar opposite views on stability etc. I just think some fans are basically saying 2 and a half seasons is long enough to judge a manager. That amuses me.
So you think it would have been wise to bring on Anita or Campbell when your centre halfs are inviting crosses, long balls and pressure? I think that would have been suicide and ended in defeat. The Shola thing is valid to an extent but he is our only strike option unfortunately, the board have to answer for that. Its all very well thinking Campbell offers pace in behind but if your defenders are sitting on the edge of their box (that is solely down to them) you'll never see him running in behind. We had a very clear and effective plan last season. We also had more players on the pitch able to manage the game. Do we blame the manager for that? We played excellent football in the first half. It was good passing football, pleasing on the eye. Unfortunately we had two centre halfs who made it impossible for that to continue. He has not had a good season as a manager. Nobody would argue otherwise. The argument is though that he has not become a bad manager in one season and at the end of the last campaign I can not recall one dissenting voice. That to me suggests the fans lack patience.
All the evidence such as results, performances, unable to improve set pieces last summer (he said he'd do this) actually point to the fact that he has become a bad manager in one season as the same mistakes are being repeated game after game, week after week. Sadly in football, especially the premier league one bad season can mean relegation. Unfortunately for us that is a realistic possibility at the moment.
