I have nothing more than a developing opinion and an awareness of what I have read on these and other threads and media articles, but I do find some of the comment strange. Since day one, I have believed that property development was, if not the crucial element of their Tigers ownership, it is certainly a key part of the business plan. There are some points I would like to share, some fact, some opinion that I believe are pertinent to this debate: 1. I cannot see how being transparent with your opinions and beliefs can be construed as moaning. Allam has made a £60M investment and he has every right to be vocal in trying to state his case; truth being, he would be insane not to do so. You don’t have to support with his position. He has invested for promotion and he must do everything he can to bring his plans to fruition. 2. Allam has already done a great deal to right the wrongs of previous owners – or is that now discounted? 3. Ours, along with all other inner city areas are in desperate need of redevelopment, job creation and social improvement. Why build Green-field when we have Brown-field crying out for development? 4. Allam has used the banner of ‘bringing sport into our lives’ to promote his ambitions for the club and the city; at the KC and beyond the Tigers, he appears to have continued to support that principle with his hard cash. 5. It seems to me to be massively hypocritical to criticise Allam for having a plan that will improve the social, cultural and financial standing of the city, when this criticism is done from a basis of supporting professional football and the financial madness that involves. Dolalleyfuckingtap! 6. Of course there is the option of supporting a council who, since the Second World War, have neglected huge areas of the city (we still have temporary housing built after the air-raids – any bomb-sites left, anyone?), squandered wonderful windfall fortunes and are now intellectually and (just about) financially bankrupt. 7. I can understand the concerns of some in not wanting the stadium sold into the hands of the Allam’s, but I don’t agree, because if it were not for the Allam’s, it would probably be in the hands of the Official Receiver, as it is hard to see what it could be used for had Hull City gone bust! Any ambition we have, as supporters, for the Tigers is and always will be interwoven with the ambition the city councillors should have to move forward in developing commerce, sport and prosperity within its elected remit.
Interesting words from Cllr. Tom McVie (who was deputy head of the council when the KC was built). Another ambition for the stadium was for it to act as trigger for wider regeneration in west Hull. A question mark still remains over whether this has been achieved. "The regeneration probably hasn't happened as quickly as we would have liked," said Cllr McVie. "Without getting too political, there have been funding problems along the way but there has been regeneration. "The stadium itself still looks the part and the facilities in West Park were improved tremendously as part of the overall development. "As a location, I think it works and because of where it is I believe we have managed to attract more people for overnight visits because it is so close to the city centre. "If I remember rightly, the second choice for a site was Costello and I'm glad it didn't go there because it is too remote from the city centre. "There is still potential for development near the stadium but I accept the current economic climate is probably against that at the moment."
I have nothing more than a developing opinion and an awareness of what I have read on these and other threads and media articles, but I do find some of the comment strange. Since day one, I have believed that property development was, if not the crucial element of their Tigers ownership, it is certainly a key part of the business plan. There are some points I would like to share, some fact, some opinion that I believe are pertinent to this debate: My understanding is different. I was under the impression that they were buying a football club. If property development was a crucial element of the business plan then maybe they should of got some written undertakings to make sure that it went forward in that direction. Do they have any such written undertakings? of course not. Buyer beware etc. 1. I cannot see how being transparent with your opinions and beliefs can be construed as moaning. Allam has made a £60M investment and he has every right to be vocal in trying to state his case; truth being, he would be insane not to do so. You don’t have to support with his position. He has invested for promotion and he must do everything he can to bring his plans to fruition. Transparency, hmm. You state that Mr Allam has made a £60m investment and so does Mr Allam himself. If there were something tangible to back that up I may have a bit more sympathy with his position. When it comes to the finances of the football club the whole thing has been shrouded in mystery for years to the point were the average fan simply dosn't believe a word of it. There is no doubt it has cost him a lot of money but that is no concern of mine. All the fun of the fair, roll-up, roll-up, make a fortune - lose a fortune. It dosn't matter to me. He has every right to be as vocal as he wants, fair play to him for that. He dosn't seem very good at it though, imo and would be well advised to get some PR and marketing people on board. He may choose not to and that is up to him, it is his footballclub after all. 2. Allam has already done a great deal to right the wrongs of previous owners – or is that now discounted? Not at all, well not by me at least. I happen to think he is the best owner we have ever had. He has made massive strides taking the club forward. Clearing the clubs debt, sacking Pearson and Barmby, bringing in Steve bruce. Take a look at the table it speaks for itself. 3. Ours, along with all other inner city areas are in desperate need of redevelopment, job creation and social improvement. Why build Green-field when we have Brown-field crying out for development? I am only interested in the football club. 4. Allam has used the banner of ‘bringing sport into our lives’ to promote his ambitions for the club and the city; at the KC and beyond the Tigers, he appears to have continued to support that principle with his hard cash. I couldn't care less about this, see previous answer. 5. It seems to me to be massively hypocritical to criticise Allam for having a plan that will improve the social, cultural and financial standing of the city, when this criticism is done from a basis of supporting professional football and the financial madness that involves. Dolalley****ingtap! At the risk of repeating myself here. I couldn't give a flying fxxk about the social, cultural and financial standing of the city. I just pay money to watch some blokes in black and amber shirts kick a ball about. 6. Of course there is the option of supporting a council who, since the Second World War, have neglected huge areas of the city (we still have temporary housing built after the air-raids – any bomb-sites left, anyone?), squandered wonderful windfall fortunes and are now intellectually and (just about) financially bankrupt. We seemed to have moved away from the topic of Hull City fc. The above does not interest me or concern me. 7. I can understand the concerns of some in not wanting the stadium sold into the hands of the Allam’s, but I don’t agree, because if it were not for the Allam’s, it would probably be in the hands of the Official Receiver, as it is hard to see what it could be used for had Hull City gone bust! We are were we are, deal with it and stop dwelling in the past. Worry about the future? Any ambition we have, as supporters, for the Tigers is and always will be interwoven with the ambition the city councillors should have to move forward in developing commerce, sport and prosperity within its elected remit. Complete and utter rubbish. The only link between Hull City fc and Hull City Council is the fact that we play in a ground that they designed, paid for and built on budget and then gave away lock stock and barrel (which was nice of them.).
Like I said, it was my understanding. I did and still do find it hard to believe that they would, or anyone would be naïve enough to believe that their full plan was based on pure altruistic sentiment. I also believe that to expect them to detail their plans, pre or post purchase, would be just as naïve. Perhaps reading between the lines can be inaccurate, but it is a recognised form of analysis that does no harm in matters such as this. It was no secret that Adam Pearson had used the property element to attract the previous buffoons, so to expect it to be a factor again would be perfectly reasonable. The club was on the brink of liquidation, to avert that took a huge investment in the form of immediate cash or surety – why question or belittle this? Instead of lying in financial ruin, or worse, we currently enjoy watching enthralling, vibrant football and sit in 4th place in England’s 2nd highest tier – just how tangible must it be for you? How good he is at the PR and posturing is another matter – but time will tell. You are only interested in the football – good for you! Why all of the other non-football comment, when you could leave it to those who give a toss? Again you make the point ‘I just pay money to watch some blokes in black and amber shirts kick a ball about.’ – okay, do that. I do not believe that the council and it’s track-record can be excluded from this debate. ‘We are were we are, deal with it and stop dwelling in the past. Worry about the future?’ - I think this is best ignored as it is the daftest sentence of you post. I have not lived in Hull since 1973, but still count it as my home of origin and proudly so. Anything that can bring together 10%+ of a community and get them to pay for the privilege cannot or should not be so easily discounted, as you do. I do agree with your very last sentence ‘The only link between Hull City fc and Hull City Council is the fact that we play in a ground that they designed, paid for and built on budget and then gave away lock stock and barrel (which was nice of them.).’ as that appears to be the way it is and that is a great pity as they are both a part of the community and the community deserves better.
Good post Fez, some interesting points. The club was indeed on the brink of liquidation and as I have already pointed out I am eternally grateful for the investment Mr Allam made. I certainly do not seek to belittle this. However, that said, neither you nor I are privy to the full details of who was paid what, for what etc, neither are the media. Very few people would be aware of the full details and the ones that do are not saying. That is entirely up to them. When yet another random figure is pulled out of the air then you can. a) believe it. b) not believe it. c) not care. Each to their own on that. I accept that it cost a massive amount of money and all they have to show for it is a team lying fourth in the championship. They may yet ending up owning a premier league club and I would wish them well with that. A quick mention for the previous buffoons. The previous buffoons took us to the premier league. Regally fxxked it up once we got there, true. But they did actually get us there. I put my thoughts on all seven points, you can take or leave the replies. I think I made it fairly clear that I am only interested in the football club. The only reason I can see that the council come into the equation is that the owner of the football club wishes to buy some land off the council which is not for sale. We also play in a council owned football ground but I am pretty sure Mr Allam was aware of that when he bought the football club. If Mr Allam wishes to build a ground elsewhere and move his football team into it he has every right to do that, just as people can choose to attend or not attend. I would not attend Hull City home matches played outside the Hull boundary, some people would. You state " I do not believe that the council and it’s track-record can be excluded from this debate." I don't see the council and its track record have anything to do with this debate. Mr Allam says he sees no future at the KC stadium if and when we get to the premier league. It is his football club and his money so if that is the case, good luck and off you pop. We are were we are. Like it or not. By all means ignore this part of the post if you wish. It dosn't change the reality. For what it's worth, the ground would not of ended up in the hands of the official receiver. In case you have failed to grasp this. The ground belongs to the council, not the football club.
I believe this discussion covers the most important issue this club has faced in its lifetime and deserves to be thoroughly discussed by one and all – those getting bored move on now. I don’t think the detail is essential to appreciate the scope of their undertaking – a huge risk with their family silver! There is a lot of wealth, in and around Hull and no one else was seen to be rushing forward. For me, it is not just the success of the club, but it’s longevity that is important; the Allam’s have had a direct bearing on both – the future is all about guesswork or good planning based on knowledge and knowledge comes from experience or history as some strands are known. If they end up owning a PL club, then they deserve it. As for the previous buffoons, they were simply in the right place at the right time and very lucky and then, very, very stupid. None of what you say about the ‘deal’ is incorrect, although I believe your view of it is unrealistic in business terms. The key element is the KC Stadium; they require ownership before they invest in major structural change – I would not put an extension on a rented house – would you? There is a package of development land adjacent to the stadium and they wish to have the option on that – it is simply sensible business and let’s face it, no-one else is rushing forward to do anything with it. Do you seriously believe the council has the means to develop it? Of course Allam was aware of the ownership issues, just as he knows all business has its risks. He is not risk averse, but neither is he a fool. Unlike you, I would attend wherever the ground is, but my strong preference is that it stays at the Circle and that is exactly where I expect it to stay. Melton would reduce my 270+mile round trip by about 14 miles – rumpy pumpy! We have attendance levels that have fallen to a level that is a problem for future investment plans. We have owners who are prepared to invest, but the conditions to do this are currently unfavourable. It takes two to tango and the other partner in this sorry dance is the council. For me to disregard the future plans of the Allam’s I need to see a Plan B. At this moment the council are Plan B and therefore I need to know how well they have managed the asset in the past, how well they have focused on redeveloping the area in question (when they had wealth) and what their plans are going forward. A wise man ignores history at his peril; a fool rushes into the future without a game-plan. Which should we be? The council are a huge factor in this; regardless of which side of the argument you fall. My comment regarding the Official Receiver was not to any timescale and more to illustrate that should the stadium lose its football club, it will then be defunct in terms of its designed core use; in other words, it cannot pay its own way and is bankrupt in principle. Darlington has such a problem that can be used as a perfect illustration; an almost identical stadium that is now a neglected white elephant. Something industrial may save that one, but do we want that at the Circle.
I care about my football club because it represents the city of Hull, of which I have always been proud and always will. The Club belongs in the City of Hull, nowhere else - end of.
The Allams said bigger stadium = cheaper tickets and I believe them. In my opinion there's no reason to doubt them because they have not let us down once so far . Also as mel u pointed out in the premier league there won't be empty seats like there is now .. Once we go up the Allams Will do all they can to keep us up . We won't end up in the **** like last time in my opinion.. If they had no intention of dragging Hull City as high as possible why bother to step in in the first place ..
Fair play to you Mr Fez, I agree with you that this is one of the most important things to come up regarding Hull City and all input into this debate is most welcome. I also agree that you do not need the full details to understand the enormity of what Mr Allam took on. The fact that mr Allam has stated he can't and won't put similair amounts of funds forward in the future tells me that in no uncertain terms. If they do end up owning a premier league club they do indeed deserve it. The key element is the KC stadium and of course nobody in their right mind would put an extension on a rented property at their own expense. So if they wish to extend the stadium, they need to buy it first. Hull City Council have never said they wish to sell it, so there would be many hurdles to overcome just to get as far as purchasing the stadium. Let's consider this a little further. Start with the non negotiables. Here's a couple to be going on with. First one, Assem Allam with never get into any joint venture proposals with Hull City Council. Second one, Walton street car park/hull fairground/market-car boot venue is not for sale. Put simply, buy the football ground only on behalf of the club and develop it subject to permissions, or stay there for free and take circa 600k a year of the egg chasers for forty years or until they get bankrupted/liquidated, whichever comes first. Mr Allam could also move his football club wherever he likes and still keep the stadium management company if he chose to, it's an option, and worth bearing in mind. So, if the development land you are talking about is Walton street and it is not for sale it leaves the option of purchasing the ground only. You say that nobody else is rushing to do anything with this land and the council is showing no inclination to. For a piece of flat land it brings in an enormous amount of money as it is. Do you think it is cheap to get a burger pitch for Hull fair? do you reckon it's cheap to bring a ride to Hull fair? Clue, it isn't. It costs a fxxkin fortune and the council do very well out of it. Compare that to absolute fxxk all they get out of the KC stadium. In fact until recently they were paying the SMC to rent space in a building they own. You couldn't make this stuff up and you don't have to, the ****wittery of Hull City Council knows no bounds. I mention this in passing because having suffered badly in this regard before they are not likely to compound their misery a second time. There are of course two ways of looking at it. Councillor Doyle's vision came to fruition and helped catapult Hull toward top ten city status and helped two failing sports clubs achieve their dreams. Or they spent £44 million quid of public money, gave it away and never saw a penny of it again. Whichever way you choose to look at what happened ten years ago that is now water under the bridge. Like you I would also prefer Hull City to stay at the circle, but if the owner decides to move the club then so be it. I don't in my heart of hearts think it will happen but I can't discount the possibility that one day it might. "We have attendance levels that have fallen to a level that is a problem for future investment plans." Well that could well be true but to use a famous quotation "it's the economy,stupid" It is also the lack of any decent marketing, a lack of any positive PR. It also about turning a 20,000 fan base into ten thousand? (these are the adults) individual revenue streams. The sole purpose of Hull City football club in recent times has been to screw every last penny they can out of their individual revenue streams, this is just my opinion and you are of course free to agree or disagree. Do Hull City fc care about the fans in any way? They appear not to give a fxxk. Just my opinion. The stadium would not be defunct if Hull City left as the egg chasers would be in situ. Darlington didn't have a 600k a year tennant. The SMC may also be able to get another tennant in to ground share the KC. An egg chasing team of the union variety for instance. They could get one that play in blue white and yellow to match the ground maybe. I doubt Hull Kingston Rovers would be given the option, I also doubt they would want the option as things stand. But whose to say what a new owner of HKR might think at some time in the future, that may depend on who a knew owner of HKR was, ten a penny egg chasing teams, just saying like.
IF you look at it from the councils point of view, they would look like they are abandoning Kingston Communications. Our monopoly of a telephone provider was floated on the stock exchange in order for the council to get money. Mr Garrchtysaurus knows that if the council lost the stadium, their funds from the KC would dry up. So financially it makes much more sense to be hanging on with his twisted little claws and we ALL know how tight a Conservative led government are... THIS is a government that stole my milk from me in school, for ****s sake!
B2W, your experience and view of the club are polar to mine. I get excellent value for money. I am constantly contacted by the club with offers and marketing of different events. I get emails and news letters. The club office ring me on a regular basis and the ticket office staff provide a great service. I see an owner who is a businessman with a proven track record of supporting the people of Hull, why don't the people of Hull see that? It is beyond common sense not to support him.
There is absolutely no good reason to keep a piece of derelict land, for a one week a year fair. Simply move it to East Park. There's also the option of voting out the current bunch of incompetant dinosaurs and leaving the next bunch to try and sort a deal. The reason Hull suffers so much with unemployment and social issues, is that the people responsible for planning are utterly clueless and too many people are complacent about the consequences.
Do the council own the land surrounding the KC? if so there is nowt stopping the KC remaining in council claws and Mr Allam buying the surrounding land. He can develop that land for his sports village.
What else does the city need? The last time they had a windfall of cash they built the KC to help the city. If they sell the land and the stadium to the Allams they will have another windfall of cash that they can spend in a new way.
Maybe you can't see what is obvious to others! We applaud players who take thousands each week out of the club and then some slate the owner who funds them. A businessman says this is the way we can build a bigger club and suddenly twats who earn tuppence per year believe that they know more!
