Our Academy

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Tisdale's St James Swap

Tisdale's St James Swap

Member
Jun 18, 2011
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Here and there
Is anyone else really disappointed in what we get from the academy?

You look at clubs like West Ham, Crystal Palace etc who have a lot more competition in their catchment areas and they produce lots of quality players.

Very few from our academy in what is always described as a 'hotbed' of football seem to make the grade.... 35million for Carroll is clearly an exception.

I had high hopes for Shane Ferguson/ Tav but don't think they will make that final step up. Hopefully Adam Campbell will and there are a few of the recent youth signings that may make the grade....

Is there a problem with the real youth U16 football or do you think we will start to see a realimprovement on proper home grown players?
 
I don't have any sources on this but I don't believe we have a top tier rated youth academy ala Man U etc. which prevents our range we can recruit from and hence why we dont compete in the highest u21 league. May be completely wrong on that but that's what I recall.
 
I think you'll find that, given our current transfer policy, the problem with our academy is it's not based in France ;)
 
It's the mismanagement (not from Pardew but from those in the job before him) of the younger players, Sammy, Fergie and Vuckic are all 21 now, they should have been on loan at league 1 clubs aged 18-20 and then Championship clubs aged 20-21. At 22 they should then be ready to make an impression on our squad.

If Campbell isn't going to be making more than 10-15 appearances next season he should be loaned out to a championship side playing football week in, week out. It's the best way for young players to develop. Same for Streete who we apparently have high hopes for, he should be on loan to a league 1 side next season, championship the following season and if needs be a newly promoted prem team the year after that. All of our young players rot in the youth teams for too long and when they do go on loan it's too late as they haven't progressed as they should have done.
 
we're trying to rectify the problem now and to be fair this board have invested the money in the system to upgrade it. The problem is it may be 10 years before we see any real benefits. Hall and Shepherd both talked about it, but their deeds suggested differently. Some of the younguns we have now are borderline. We'll see. Hopefully the much vaunted Streete can step up this season, and young Alnwick and Campbell can get involved.

Pardew certainly seems very keen to see it (hardly surprising given his Palace, Southampton and West Ham background). He maybe jumped in a bit too soon last season but I think it requires some patience on our part too. Villa have gone this route hard this season and their support has been pretty patient through some tough times.
 
Agree it takes time to develop the right academy system. You don't just suddenly find a whole crop of amazing 17 - 18 year olds and then within 2 years see half a dozen of them playing regularly in the first team. We have a few on the fringes, who have either had a few games so far, or have been out on loan. Chances are, maybe two or three of them will genuinely make it in the top level.

We also have about 5 or 6 a bit younger with potential, who have time to develop. IF the youth training set up is good enough. We'll then have to see whether there is a steady flow.
 
You need to invest to get your category A status. the only young players you're going to attract are Newcastle fans otherwise they'll just go where there's better facilities.
 
I think different. It's actually called Category One, and we still don't know if we have it yet. Decision is due June/July, as it's done annually and this was given to Boro and Sunderland last July. Shambolic that we're behind those two.
 
Obi Wan said:
Really? I knew we didn't get the A status about a year ago. Has that been sorted now? If so, then we will definitely start to see some improvement in the youth development.
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I could be wrong but I believe we were knocked back last year. I think we were given a list of imporvement measures which the club now believe have been taken care of and think gaining the category one this year will be a formality. Indeed it may have already happened because I remember something as far back as October saying they had made the improvements the audit required. Although I believe any decision is due end of the season?

Pretty important because the grant you get is decided by this and also it will lead to some youngsters going elsewhere. Whereas local lads will go for ourselves through passions and on the basis of the clubs standing, kids from outside the area will have parents pushing them towards the ones with category one status. Also the renowned academies already have a head start. The likes of Palace, West Ham, Middlesbrough, Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Man C, Spurs, Arsenal all have proven track records of bringing players through who go on to represent the first team or make it at first teams of other clubs.
 
I wish we would transform the academy into one capable of producing premier league players within 5-6 years. When the likes of Southampton produce well and even Crewe are ahead of us then we should definitely address that asap.
 
Sir Bobby Robson's jig of delight. said:
It's the mismanagement (not from Pardew but from those in the job before him) of the younger players, Sammy, Fergie and Vuckic are all 21 now, they should have been on loan at league 1 clubs aged 18-20 and then Championship clubs aged 20-21. At 22 they should then be ready to make an impression on our squad.

If Campbell isn't going to be making more than 10-15 appearances next season he should be loaned out to a championship side playing football week in, week out. It's the best way for young players to develop. Same for Streete who we apparently have high hopes for, he should be on loan to a league 1 side next season, championship the following season and if needs be a newly promoted prem team the year after that. All of our young players rot in the youth teams for too long and when they do go on loan it's too late as they haven't progressed as they should have done.
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Sammy and Fergie are 21 and have just completed loans to Championship clubs, so they are on course with the model you suggest. Vukic has been injured or I expect he would have spent some time in the Championship as well.

Dummett, Inman, etc are all kicking around the lower leagues. The club seems ot be doing what you suggest.
 
Nedders said:
I think different. It's actually called Category One, and we still don't know if we have it yet. Decision is due June/July, as it's done annually and this was given to Boro and Sunderland last July. Shambolic that we're behind those two.
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You've got a history of rejecting entry to the reserve league which is pivotal in bringing on your youngsters. It's no surprise whatsoever you're lagging behind
 
Bri-normous said:
You need to invest to get your category A status. the only young players you're going to attract are Newcastle fans otherwise they'll just go where there's better facilities.
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This isn't new news I am sorry to say. The reason why the two Charlton brothers, Bobby and Jack, went to Manchester United and Leeds United, respectively, was that the facilites on offer were second rate.

That tale in itself should have been a warning writ large on the boardroom walls ever since to remind the boards which followed that a good first class academy is essential otherwise it's a waste of time.
 
ClearlyDeludedGloryHunter said:
This isn't new news I am sorry to say. The reason why the two Charlton brothers, Bobby and Jack, went to Manchester United and Leeds United, respectively, was that the facilites on offer were second rate.

That tale in itself should have been a warning writ large on the boardroom walls ever since to remind the boards which followed that a good first class academy is essential otherwise it's a waste of time.
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It's crazy for a club as large as yours to have had such a poor youth infrastructure for so long. Henderson paid off the cost of build for the academy of light. You would've thought after what big lass went for you would have said more of that please! and poured some of that money straight into your youth system to get category one the same time we did. You're a year behind us now and we're still pouring money into it. It will be three or four years before we see results from the category award. will be longer for you.
 
Bri-normous said:
It's crazy for a club as large as yours to have had such a poor youth infrastructure for so long. Henderson paid off the cost of build for the academy of light. You would've thought after what big lass went for you would have said more of that please! and poured some of that money straight into your youth system to get category one the same time we did. You're a year behind us now and we're still pouring money into it. It will be three or four years before we see results from the category award. will be longer for you.
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We did do exactly that with the Carroll money. Unfortunately the Hall/Shepherd years left us so far behind with regards to the youth system, it has taken more than a year to catch up. We're getting there and this board have done the right thing at long last. Strangely your youth system for all its great facitlities doesn't seem to have produced that many top class top league talent?

Boro are way ahead up here - Downing, Johnson, Cattermole, Morrison etc
 
Freddd said:
Sammy and Fergie are 21 and have just completed loans to Championship clubs, so they are on course with the model you suggest. Vukic has been injured or I expect he would have spent some time in the Championship as well.

Dummett, Inman, etc are all kicking around the lower leagues. The club seems ot be doing what you suggest.
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Probelm is both Sammy and Fergie only have 6 months (12-15 games) of constant competitive experience, they should have had at least 18 months of this by now. Should have both had 1 year in league one by now if only to get use to the playing Saturday, Midweek and then Saturday again. And last season they should have had a full season each in the Championship.
 
Norma Snockers said:
We did do exactly that with the Carroll money. Unfortunately the Hall/Shepherd years left us so far behind with regards to the youth system, it has taken more than a year to catch up. We're getting there and this board have done the right thing at long last. Strangely your youth system for all its great facitlities doesn't seem to have produced that many top class top league talent?

Boro are way ahead up here - Downing, Johnson, Cattermole, Morrison etc
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Yeah, for all the facilities our youth set up just hasn't been run right. About to announce Inter Milan chief scout Valentino Angeloni as our new head scout so I expect more overseas talent. Got some decent kids coming through But Henderson, Colback and to a much much lesser degree Waghorn hasn't been a good enough turnover for the facilities at our disposal.

Colback is developing into a fine player though.
 
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