It's not the German cars as such is it Plymborn, it's the single market which we need. It was said that we were such a vital market place for the EU that they wouldn't be so stupid to refuse to give it to us, And the example given by the Brexiteers every time - German cars, which we buy in great numbers and made us so important we could get whatever we wanted. Now we have the German carmakers actually saying that freedom of labour movement is a prerequisite. They are going to give us a bad time - entirely predictable - otherwise all the other northern European countries will go the same way. We have to be made an example of and have very little leverage.
Yes I saw Stephan Crabb putting himself forward for the Tory leadership.....young working class (no Eton, no Bullingdon Club) MP, he will not go down well with some......a christian, does not believe in same sex marriage.....seems to have values that are not accepted in general anymore....to good to be true in this day and age....putting a marker down for the future....not his time yet I think.
Pre article 50 exit clause posturing....talking tough.....remember the EU only survives because it compromises every day of the week....with 27 (28 with us)...states/countries involved how else would they survive.....the UK is not without friends in Europe....and some of them would like their own referendum. The freedom of movement.... one of the four pillars that the EU exist by....is creaking at the seams.........many thousands drifting away from the poorer state/countries looking for work that their own countries cannot supply.....rich countries get richer at the cost of the poorer ones.....compromises are needed......controlled freedom of movement is required....poorer countries cannot survive if the EU allow its population to drift to the richer countries....the systems bust.....now don't start me on Junkers plans for the United States of Europe....which Brexit has stopped for awhile....but never fear it will start again now that one of the stronger domocracies is leaving....opposition to Junkers dream will have been weakened.
I wasn't decrying the bravery of the veterans in anyway. The only thing I question is why they went and it doesn't matter how long anyone served or didn't serve to form an opinion. Politicians have always been the reason for wars not the common man. The Common man has always had enough on his plate making ends meet without wanting to fight the world. Plym were you not listening to the news tonight? They had a load of statements on it from Euro leaders. Which bit of "There will be no special concessions with trade for the UK they will have to accept the 4 principals" The main one of the 4 apparently is FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE.
Well as i said, we do need to stay in the single market and i think we will do.. hopefully. Its not just about the cars, but all of it. Yes we all buy the German ones...cars i mean.. Never had a merc or bmw ? i cant see them putting up the costs tho, but what they say about allowing free movement makes sense.. I would employ a polish plumber or any if they have the experience.. lots here doing the construction as well. We need them.. I use alot of products from that country and power tools.. it wont stop me buying it..
Didn't you read what I wrote sensible.....Pre Article 50 exit clause posturing.....the EU live by compromising all day everyday.
I keep saying that you had better hope you are right plym but all the talk is not about compromise by them is it. Think about it, if they make an exception for the UK then they might as well all pack in and they won't do that will they.
Don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but the UK will not get access to the market without accepting free movement. End of story. No idea who is going to be in charge in 12 months but it looks very much like we will end up paying for access to the market and having free movement. So what changes, nothing much except that we don't get the rebate so those areas that were net receivers (Cornwall etc) will lose out to the tune of £billions. Not sure that this is the result that the brexits thought they were getting.
Already EU leaders are talking of compromise.....the French finance minister tonight talked.... that all things are up for discussion and compromise.....you start talking tough and you meet somewhere in the middle....the EU is not as united as you think....they will need to change there approach....the freedom of movement is under pressure and they will have to make changes or parts of the EU will turn into empty wastelands.
You talk as if you know what all these EU Countries think. You can only know what they are saying and that is no compromise at the moment. Now for those that don't just hear what they want to hear that sounds pretty much like they aren't going to cut us a special deal. I haven't heard anyone else saying that they want to get rid of freedom of movement so how do you know it's under pressure? How do you know when nothing has been discussed that they will have to make changes just for us?
What the French minister actually said is that the UK revert to zero and therefore everything is on the table. That doesn't mean the fundamental position has changed. The four freedoms are free movement of goods, capital, services, and people. We want the first 3 but to be excused from the fourth. Not going to happen. Of course we'll be allowed to buy European goods, whether a BMW or a wheel of Brie. That's not the real issue and the focus on buying German cars is a typical example of how politicians mislead the unwary. The issue is what we'll be able to SELL to them at a reasonable, tariff free price i.e. the free movement of goods (and indeed of capital and services given we have a hugely important financial services sector). Buried within that is the issue of inward foreign investment. The likes of Honda, Nissan and Opel (i.e. Vauxhall) and indeed Airbus create skilled jobs in the UK. What's are the medium and long term prospects for those if their UK made products face tariffs on sales to Europe? Jaguar/Land Rover is planning a facility to build hybrid engines. Given their parent is Indian, where do you think that will be built now? Uncertain I'd have thought. J/LR already has an assembly plants in India and China and factories in development in Brazil and Slovakia. Wage costs in the UK are relatively high and without the advantage of direct access to the European market, where would you go?
One good thing is that Boris won't be prime minister and hope fully his bum chum Grove won't be either.. Troublemakers.. I read that 1 in 5 BMW sold are bought in the uk? so i don't think the germans will want to give up on us. That is without everything else we buy from them..
I'm very disappointed. Johnson is largely to blame for getting us in this mess and he should shoulder the burden of sorting it out. That would be the end of his career. I presume that after his naked attempt to use the referendum to grab the leadership, he's been told that he doesn't have the support of Tory MPs.
Only a mess in the sense that the £ has crashed, Carney has said today that growth will slow (maybe a technical recession as per the detailed forecasts) and that there will have to be further quantitative easing. All as predicted by the experts who were said to be merely biased. Bank shares have crashed, which drives a coach and horses through the plan to support Government finances by selling the State's shareholdings taken after the 2007/08 crash. Higher taxes and lower spending will be required to counterbalance that and reduced Government revenues as the economy slows. Also, a small detail, there's no practical prospect of returning the 2m+ EU workers currently employed in the UK unless we want to do catastrophic harm, economically and in international relations. Meanwhile, it's clear there it's highly unlikely that we will have access to the European free market unless we make financial contributions to the EU and continue to allow free movement of labour. In other words, by the Brexiteers measures, we'll have achieved nothing. They are NOT queueing up to do trade deals, quite the contrary, Europe want to use us as a whipping boy to dissuade others from the same path. Meanwhile, we have as Michael Heseltine put it today, the greatest constitutional crisis in peacetime Britain at least sine the abdication and before that, the Civil War. Other than that, everything is fine.
