Their manifest last year was only three pages long They haven't got any policies. They're a jumped up extreme version of the Tory party.
And unless you haven't noticed, there are now people in the UK who no longer want it. If we became totally independent, then it all depends, at the end of the day its about population, and controlling it. There is nothing wrong with immigration, but it needs to be controlled or it can cause problems for the countries infrastructure. Now I am not blaming immigration here, but look at our NHS, its struggling to cope, the more people in the country just adds to it. So you need some controls. Same as our transport system, it struggles to cope at times now, but again, you add more uncontrolled population and you add to it. Who said anything about being kicked out, I haven't suggested kicking anyone out, those here are here whether we like it or not. You do know though that the immigration policy that UKIP want to introduce means that those wanting to come to the UK can do as long as they can support themselves for 5 years (I am sure it is 5 years) in that they will not be able to use the benefit system until they have paid into it. Do you agree with that? As I said, and what you seem to be ignoring, is that its not a blanket ban on immigration, its merely about having some control over it, control the population, make sure that our system isn't abused. In a idealists world, then you would be right, but we don't live in that world do we. Would you stop me moving into one of your bedrooms upstairs? Or would you tell me to get out of your house. Same principle, just on a much smaller scale. As for how things used to be then yeah, but people used to also go around shooting each other too, or living in caves, point is times change, the population is growing. That is crap and you know it, UKIP don't dislike foreigners, have you not seen their staff, or are you really that ignorant. They just don't like uncontrolled immigration. Its as simple as that, but do-gooders hear the word immigration and they start down the path of crying racism and crap. Where as I do, if you cannot support yourself in this country, then your not welcome here, I am sorry, but that's how I feel. If we all felt the world was such a rosy place and opened up our borders, we would be ****ed. Simple as. We struggle now with illegal and legal immigration, imagine opening the doors for everyone.
I agree. Of course you need to be able to support yourself. But unskilled people are able to support themselves with unskilled jobs. That is my point. And just to be clear, I don't think anyone shoudl be able to just turn up in another country and claim benefits. I'd even be happy for the lazy bums in teh UK to have their benefits stopped. I'm all for supporting those that need help, but not the people who can work but refuse to. You say that many in teh UK no longer want EU freedom of movement, but I think what these people really want is freedom of movement for themselves but not others. So I assume you'll be happy to go back to the days of applying for a visa for France and other EU countries. I'm also confused at your statement that you agree with current immigration policies, because you also seem to want them replaced with UKIP policies. Current policy is freedom of movement for EU citizens.
Also, I just read that Farage said yesterday that he has nothing at all against people that arrive in teh UK legally and that he won't do anything to remove them. So, all the people from EU are here legally, so now he's saying it's ok. I think most UKIP supporters are under the impression that he's going to remove them. Farage seems a little confused. Maybe he doesn't know what he wants.
Farage is a failed tory and a joke. Buy him a pint and he will tell you what you want to hear.. **** me i can do that but when it comes to running the country then i could not do that as long as my arse points downwards. I want to hear from him about REAL issues and how he can make this country better. Immigration is an issue but a very small part and i want to know how he is going to run the NHS, create better paid jobs, taxes and thousands of other issues that make up the way we live. He advocates privatization of the NHS and that stems from his tory roots and once that happens there will be no turning back where only the really well off will be the only ones that will be able to afford medical care to the standard that should be for all. ..and remember we wont have the EU to help us as we will be on our own. If you think things are bad now then that will be nothing if UKIP ever came to power it would be a thousand times worse. Farage and all MP's will be ok as they will make sure of that but the rest of the average joe public will be up the stream without a paddle.
Agree. The country would fall apart with UKIP in charge. We'd be a laughing stock. But sadly, millions of UK voters can't see that. But it could be even worse, we could end up with Ed in charge. Then we'll be back to the 1970s, rubbish piled in the streets, 3-day weeks. Whoever we end up with it won't get much better because they're all in it for themselves.
Unskilled jobs are pretty much minimum wage and just above right? What if they are bringing kids, can they pay for their schooling on low income. Can they afford to pay health insurance for the first 5 years of being here? If they can, then by all means. Come on in, pay into the pot, then they are more than welcome to use our services. If not, stay where they are, we have our own who need the support. That would not bother me at all. So your assumption, at least for me is wrong, and it may well be wrong for many of those others you think are just in it for themselves. I agree with OUR current policy, the free movement of EU citizens is an EU policy, of which we are a member, there is a big difference. Our policy is to make sure those coming here are worthwhile to our way of life, not just anyone. It works for other countries and it has worked for us, but the EU is a different kettle of fish altogether.
Do you seriously trust any party? take all this nonsense over Emily Thornberry, The hatred that has been deliberately whipped up against all poorer sections of society, from the ugly minds and mouths of our privileged private school and oxbridge set is a cancer that has spread to every corner of politics. She is a scapegoat for the much more Machiavellian, to carry on slyly convincing the plebs they are going to change and become democratically respectful toward the ordinary masses, while royally screwing them over before their lying mouths have opened to spew out more spin. It's this poison that has been believed without question by the stupid trusting masses, then that double speak dialogue becomes a recognised language and incredibly an accepted form of communication. The masters have hate and fear ingrained in the national psyche now, job done. It's the new 'normality' . If you cannot see that the time for talking is at an end, then you really have no future, and neither do your children, because you have been truly divided and conquered. Globalisation is central to the alienation from established parties because it's becoming ever more apparent that voting doesn't really change anything. How can it when the most important decisions affecting our working lives and our material conditions are most often taken by unaccountable corporations outsourcing jobs and offshoring wealth? National governments have less influence over economic policy because decisions about job creation are now subordinated to global corporations; social policy - health, education, welfare - is ever more circumscribed by a shrinking tax base due to those same global corporations indulging in transfer pricing and abusive use of tax havens, forcing all governments into a race to the bottom on corporation tax rates which only benefit the wealthiest. And then the housing market itself is skewed in our major cities by the corporate elite, the globally mobile rich who force prices out of the reach of ordinary people and more often than not use housing as little more than a vehicle for money laundering. And they're game is not over yet, there is a hell of a lot more to come, from the ruling cesspit you have given allegiance to, will you wake up from your slumber in time? I doubt it very much......................
The truth is British people are being sold off by the ruling class and are bickering amongst themselves as they remain unable to muster a decisive blow against the ruling elite. And UKIP are not that blow, they are as much a part of the establishment as any other party. They are hard right tories, bankers, brokers, appeasers of big business and blamers of Jonny foreigner. It is becoming clear that we cannot have fair societies along with unfettered capitalism and globalisation as the latter require we compromise the former. We need our institutions global companies and governments to do more for British workers, starting by keeping British jobs onshore and for our young so they can get further education without lifelong debt. And if that is going to cost, well then someone at the top of the chain is going to have to get used to earning a few less squillions for the benefit of a fairer more equal society. Now that's the theory or should I say the dream, but in reality only a revolution will change things.
We don't have anything close to unfettered capitalism. In a capitalist system many banks would now be bankrupt. They have been supported in more of a socialist way Capitalism is not about taking money from taxpayers and giving ti to failing companies. All sorts of failing companies are supported by the taxpayer. All sorts for grants and freebies are available to big companies. This is nothing whatsoever to do with capitalism. If it was true capitalism our tax rates would be at least 50% lower than they now are and would approach zero eventually. We are a very long way from capitalism. What we have in the UK is mostly a government run by and for big business. How can anyone call that capitalism?
It sounds like we agree more than we disagree. But I think the main point I disagree with you is who's allowed into UK. I don't think the country should be flooded with people who can't afford to be here, but I also don't think British people have some automatic right to free healthcare, education, etc just because they're British. These two examples will explain it better. 1. A family, maybe parent and one kid that were born into a poor country and had limited education, Basically, just bad luck that they happened to be born where they were. These parents are determined that their child gets a better life than they did so comes to UK to look for work, They will take any workd and will find it difficult to support themselves. But they still come because the other option is to stay in poverty. 2. A family similar to above but born in UK. Had free education but didn't bother in class. Now on the dole, don't want to work, don't want to educate themselves, think everyone else should pay for their lifestyle. Given these two I'd prefer my tax to go to the first family. The UK needs more people like that. People that are willing to get off their butt and try to improve themselves. They want to work, they're willing to start at the bottom and work their way up. They have some ambition and care for their child. Why would I (or you) want to support the UK family in the above example? The child still needs help because they are just unlucky to have parents like that, but the parents don't deserve anything. I think they should be forced to work not allowed to sponge off others. And before anyone says it, I don't think all people on the dole are like this, but I know many that are. I'm not talking about those on the dole that are looking for work. I think family 1 above deserves much more support than family 2. Family 2 got a great start in live but didn't want what was offered to them. Family 1 dream of such a start in life. Why deny the that? Why support family 2 and just sponging. I am happy to support family 1 with my tax even if you're not.
I think if you work hard and reap the rewards then you deserve a high wage and should not be penalised for that, What i dont like is when you work hard and DONT reap the rewards as it goes to the bosses or share holders, This is where we fail in this country, A lot of workers are not earning enough to live on and it is them that needs their wages brought into line with at least inflation but preferably above inflation and not making unnecessary inhuman cuts to people already living in poverty...
I personally don't think they explain it better, as its comparing apples and oranges, of which case both need to be dealt with differently. What we are discussing is immigration, of which I don't think they are entitled to free healthcare. We for example get free healthcare as we have paid into the pot, our families before us paid into the pot, so its not really free, we pay for it. We just don't pay on a case by case basis. A family coming over have never paid into the pot, so it is free in every regard for them, and that's not how it should be, they should have insurance, and the insurance pay for it, not us, the ones who pay into the pot. I had to wait 10 months to see an immunologist as they are dealing with so many patients, even on the day there were loads waiting, I got a 5 minute appointment and that was it, in and out. It shouldn't be like that. What are we paying for? Now again, I am not blaming it all on immigration, but it does make things worse. When I was there, Out of say the 30 that were sat in the waiting room, 10 couldn't speak English, there were Chinese, African, and they either spoke very poor English, or in the case of the Chinese couple, they needed a translator. They may well be in this country and paying into the pot, which in that case I have no problem, but there are many out there who haven't paid in to the pot and come over for free healthcare. Personally I am torn, where kids are concerned, I would reconsider a bit, but only under a certain age, maybe 18. But once over that age, you only get NHS treatment if you have insurance, or your family have paid into the pot for 5 years. And when it comes to kids, the parents have to be at least working and attempting to make a life for themselves. Like immigrants abusing the system need to be curbed, so do these type of people. I struggle to stay on ESA as my circumstances are fairly unique in regards that the testing system does not cover my problems, and it is because of the idiots that milk the system. That make it that much harder for me. Because they make it harder to get on, but the test is too basic for problems that I have. For example the test asks if you can walk up two steps unaided, well yes I can, I am not a cripple, but can I walk up a flight of stairs daily, well someday's I can, others my legs are like jelly and I feel really weak. Can I lift an empty cardboard box, well yes I can, but can I lift boxes in a warehouse, no as I have energy problems which cause me to feel weak. I have problems absorbing nutrients it seems, but that's not part of the test, so I pass it every time and get told I am fit for work. So then get put on JSA of which I have to be willing to find work. There is no in-between. So I get ****ed over each and every time the medical comes around. The Navy don't medically discharge people if they can work, my doctors didn't keep signing me off for no reason (then it changed). But the basic medical takes none of that into consideration and I get told to get back to work. I want to work, I pushed myself to volunteer as a driver for the RNLI as although its a commitment, its only voluntarily, and have minimal attendance requirements, so I am pushing myself to try and do something. I mean the driving role see's me drive for about 5 minutes. They know about my limitations, and that there will be times that I won't be able to make training and stuff, but I have to try. I want to keep pushing myself. And trust me, I suffer the day after with my whole body feeling like its been running a marathon. As I mentioned above, if they are here willing to work, then their child should be able to get the help needed. But, the adult should require health insurance. I am with you 100% on that, not everyone is milking the system, I struggled to get accepting onto the system, because I told the truth, where as there are those who milk it by lying, and I cannot do that. Agreed, but in the circumstances I mentioned above. But another thing I think should be made clear, is that when people come to this country, they do their best to fit in, I don't like all the small groupings of Muslims for example (im using it as an example due to my experience in London). I don't like that at all. I also think if there are those that are unwilling to fit in, they should be kicked out. Such as those trying to push for Sharia Law. No, if you want Sharia, go back home, we don't want it here. I don't have a problem with immigration, I just have a problem with uncontrolled immigration and the impact of our lifestyle. But I am also critical of benefit cheats, but thats a different debate altogether. They cannot be compared.
It's capitalism alright, and always protected at whatever cost to the taxpayer, even a blind man can see that.
Capitalism doesn't protect weak companies, it lets them go bankrupt so that better companies can take their place. Keeping failing companies afloat is socialism, not capitalism.
This government needlessly closed Remploy who gave a lot of work to the vulnerable and disabled people. How can you trust anyone who does that..
So your saying the Tories are socialist now then for keeping the failed banks afloat, and ripping into the poorest in society to keep their gambling banking mates sweet?...........
Yes! It started with Labour but it has been finished by the Torries, well they are all Torries if you ask me!...............
