Yes religion has done really well in promoting tolerance and understanding hasn't it? The Crusades,The Spanish Inquisition,The Huegenots,Ireland,Bali,9/11,7/7, Iran/Iraq,Syria,The Taliban..I make that nearly a millenium of peace and understanding.And To Kill a Mockingbird isn't part of the curriculum either now,thanks to that gormless four eyed cnut of an education secretary
Ffs we're not talking about religion and tolerance obviously if you actually read what I wrote. I'm saying teaching about all religions and respecting people's views is a better way of helping people respect each other. You're still conflating the two. Understanding religion is not the same as practising a religion nor doing harm to people in the name of a religion. As I said before secular state us the ideal. It's not religion per se that causes problems it's nutters with their own twisted interpretation of it, sadly.
A brilliant thread with lots of well made points. Just getting back to the main point of the OP can I say that I am a great believer in looking back at history to prevent future mistakes. Hitler grabbed power for 2 main reasons a) He did not say to the German people ' vote for me and I will kill 6 million Jews, enter into treaties with every other dodgy character in the world, start a world war by invading every Country I come across resulting in complete destruction of Germany as we know it '. He merely promised to borrow money to build infrastructure, create jobs and get the economy going again - a simple solution to a complicated problem which greatly appealed to a large section of the electorate even though no thought had been given to the ' end game ' of such a policy. Had the same electorate bothered to read Mein Kampf and other literature they might have realised exactly what they were voting for. Like Rich I find UKIP very dangerous - just read the literature folks !! b) At the time Germany faced great problems especially with the economy. They wanted simple quick solutions to these problems but no such thing existed without major future problems arising. They swapped and changed mainstream parties in Government but as no party could wave a magic wand they eventually said ' a plague on all your houses - you're all the same ' and stopped voting. This enabled Hitler to grab power with the support of a small percentage of the electorate. I seriously believe that it is my civic duty to vote and have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote. I usually vote for the Party I believe in but I have ' protest voted ' and also tactically voted but I have never voted for an extreme - whether it be BNP, UKIP or Communist - even as a protest. Just one further point. The EU is responsible for the free movement of people but a lot of our people seem concerned about the way immigrants get use of our benefits system. I have heard a lot of people say ' they come here instead of France/Germany/Spain etc because of our generous welfare state ' How is that the fault of Europe? Surely if our welfare system is so leaky that this can happen and some of our own citizens can go from the cradle to the grave on benefits without ever doing a days work, we need to ask questions of our own politicians rather than blame Furope.
Well I am all in favour of teaching about religions.As long as we tell them the truth and that is that they are all dangerous fairy stories.
A very good analysis 1950 but are you seriously comparing the Nazi party with UKIP! I really think you need to get some perspective! UKIP only got 17% of the national vote in the council elections! Hardly a groundswell of support to propel them to Downing Street! I find all this hysteria laughable! They have galvanised the disenfranchised and have given those people that have been forgotten by the main parties a voice! This is democracy and politics is all the better for it.
I agree the comparison with Nazi's is way over the top, that will never happen again, there is too much information available via the internet and the history books for enough people to fall for anything as extreme and nasty as that. And he may be an idiot, but Fararge isn't that bloody dangerous! This all does however help me ever so slightly get my head around the conundrum I've never been able to begin to comprehend, the one of how in earth Hitler ever came to power in the first place.
Whether you are a believer or not (I'm not) I still think the basic teachings of religion are invaluable, and have moulded our society for the better. The problem is when humans get involved and twist the words to create their interpretation, often far removed from the original message, and often evil and driven by greed.
They got over 27% of the vote in the European elections which is only 2% less than Hitler got when he bullied his way into power. Sorry to be picky but who are ' those people who have been forgotten by the main parties ' ?
Thank Heaven no one has tried to convince me that leprechauns don't exist. The priest assured me of their existence, and any doubt would be the last straw. It's all I cling to.
When referring to the events of Hitler's era I was referring to the principles involved and not suggesting in any way that Farage would form another SS and slaughter 6 million immigrants. Some of their policies are extreme to say the least and there is a danger of them getting more influence than would be healthy if a lot of people stopped voting altogether or voted for them on the basis of one populist policy without paying attention to what else they stand for. The media also have a lot to answer for. Every photo you get of Farage involves him standing in a pub with a pint in his hand which the media set out as ' Nigel being a good old chap and a man of the people ' IF Cameron/Miliband/Clegg where regularly photographed in such a way they would be condemned as a pisshead who was not fit to run the country. The press have built Farage up and seem reluctant to knock him down when he should be a sitting target in view of the baggage surrounding him, some of his members and most of his policies. Another similarity with Hitler and that era perhaps.
On a serious note, and not being flippant for once? I have utter disdain for Farage and all his dangerous cronies. Never, ever would I vote for his party. A protest vote? I'd be a hypocrite.
I must admit that in the privacy of the polling booth my hand hovered over the UKIP box for a second.Contemplating whether to contribute to that collective kick up the 'arris.In the end though I came down on the side of the weird one. That's Milliband,not Howitt.
1950Canary has got a very good point. Whilst I have doubts if Farage did get power he'd do a Hitler there are frightening similarities, when you add in the suggestions for policy from some of their members like the forcible abortions, unemployed, sick & disable not being allowed to vote etc they don't look so rosy. Let's not forget Hitler came to power on the back immigrant labour is the problem kick out the foreigners to fix it. Let's also remember if we leave Europe we lose the human rights act, some will see this as a good thing I'm sure but if we lose it we're back to relying on the Magna Carta to protect our rights also we have no written constitution to protect us either. Now imagine Farage for some reason got power and one of these characters that tweet racist homophobic stuff end up home secretary etc in charge of the police :O If you aren't concerned you don't know your history.
