You agree with red, but last time I checked victims do not get an option. Waking up, knowing you've been raped, not knowing what happened is a different trauma, you don't even know how many people raped you, or what happened, maybe you wake up ripped and bleeding, maybe there are implements around the bed that were used, simplifying it to make a point is useless. Which trauma is worse, how can anyone of us speak on the behalf of anyone who was ever raped on this? Are you saying there are not any people who would rather have their wits about them when under such an attack? Stupid reasoning folks
For the record I would prefer to be awake and lucid because at least then I would know that if the loony was going to kill me, I have a fighting chance, only an idiot would want to sleep though an attack. You see the sleeping logic is on the premise that you know you are just going to be raped and left alone, you don't know, totally flawed logic, when does a rapist give you an option.
That comparison leaves me speechless, read my last comment, this is about rape not being cut open on a surgeon's table. Pretty sure the Surgeon will not try kill you while you are out of it. A rapist though, you trust the rapist to leave you be? FFS
Lol,nah mate honestly , your first couple of posts were exactly what I said so I'm hardly disagreeing with your opinion. Its the way You have to add in these (and I'm paraphrasing here because I can't be arsed going back, )Generalised statements that those you disagree with have something else wrong with them other than the act of disagreeing with you. It's: they're all intellectuals not in the real world, or deluded government sheep etc etc It's your attempt to undermine their argument before they've even spoken. That what they have to say isn't worth your opinon because of who they are not what they say. I mean your grand statement of you can't have an opinion on rape unless you've been raped (EXCEPT your own opinion of course....). Well as far as I'm aware none of us has but we CAN have an opinion and since we have as much say in how laws are written, can be police officers, judges, psychiatrists, teachers, partners ,fathers, brothers our opinions more than matter as they have a direct effect on how victims are treated and how the crime is viewed. To stop a debate on the fact none of us has been raped only works if you pass responsibility of treatment, creation of law and punishment totally over to the victims which is not a good idea with any crime. Unless you're an eye for an eye man..? Stop going to such bloody extremes with how you express your opinions and people might not switch off or react as negatively to them. Or keep going up to you. Look, I'll back off and I'll apologise right here right now if I've got you wrong and its simply a matter of me misinterpreting your writing style but I'm not the only one to react this way to you.....
Seriously I am just.. Comparing going into a hospital and trusting your life to a surgeon to a rapist drugging you senseless and having you at their mercy!! People talk as if it is a given you will be raped and left alone, many have been drugged raped and murdered. They had 0 CHANCE because they were drugged
Frank you are always entitled to disagree, and obviously you do not need my agreement for you to do so. We disagree but that is secondary to discussing it in the first place. Your personal attacks on me when we never ever had words have led us to where we are now. if you deny that then fair enough, it would be an indication of you as a person, and how you deal with adversity and make you a perfect example fo someone who suffers from congitive dissonance. As for the subject. After having read on, your post is just a further attack on me. Then you paraphrase, handy for making false points, and then generalise which is also useful for giving false impressions. I can only assume you are going at me because I have more than once challenged your core beliefs and you don't f**ing like it. Deal with it chum, stop being a baby and stop making this about you or I. You really do put immense weight in your own long winded opinions, your last two posts have been about me, not the topic, you have issues and you cannot accept alternate opinions. Then claim I can't. If you've anything to say on the topic though, fire away, can you stop talking about me you weirdo? I had huge respect for you until you started going at me personally a while back. Maybe that is why you piss me off more than others.
Oh and Frank, My writing style has caused me many an argument, you would not the first to say that. 100% agree. I try leave out room for interpretation and often come across as a c**t.
NO, YOU WOULDNT KNOW I was raped as a 6 yr old by a 17 yr old 'friend of the family' who I used to play cricket with As he had a knife to my throat do you think I knew if he was going to kill me? Took all on telling my mum when she realised something was wrong with me when I got in as he said he would kill me if I told So Ive been following this thread, with interest and each person is different to how they react. Its affected me throughout my life, it was an aggressive attack but I like to think that im stronger for it. Although something can just trigger bad thoughts back to it, im shaking now typing this. But I have nothing to be ashamed of I just had to step in on your comment as you speak as if thats 100% right when it isnt, i'd rather have been passed out than have the memories in my head for 30 years of everything, having to watch popeye on tv, the knife, all the ****. The anger as I got older Seeing him around when he'd done time in a young offenders. Being offered to have him done over which is an option I didnt take Ive had a lot of probs with it, but luckily I have really good friends and family No memories if unconscious though, which I'd have preferred. If you're awake you dont know what the rapist will do
I don't like to discuss such things here, but given my posting here it is apparent I have a special interest in this. I had such an event many years ago. It was someone our family knew and that is a situation onto it's self and does not qualify me or anyone else to generalise for everyone else. I am sorry to hear such a thing and I can say I understand absolutely 100% your viewpoint nor would I diminish anything you say on it. I can say with all certainly that I being awake altered what happened, it would have been worse had I not, it was a man, I was 10 and I played along and promised it was our secret until I was home, I took years dealing with my playing along as if I somehow was part to blame, but in the end, had I kicked and screamed he may have drowned me in a bathtub and dumped my body so as to attempt cover his crime. being awake gave me that option, I still don't understand how I acted like that to this day, how I was aware enough to play along, but it seemed to be a natural reaction to the danger I was in. As I said, it still does not qualify me to judge what is worse or not for others. So I do know
If a rapist is capable of raping you against your will- he is capable of killing you too. Conscious or not. Naturally, heart surgery and rape are completely different things... but... (one is helping you, and one is an awful crime). Both are extremely traumatic and painful... and life threatening. I wouldn't dream of being conscious for heart surgery- and if I were given the choice- I absolutely would rather be raped when unconscious than having to experience the terrifying experience of being overpowered and violently used against my will. I'm sure in both scenarios there are terrible mental and physical scars afterwards... but yeah... I'd definitely rather be drugged... Incidentally, I'm sure it has happened- but I've never heard of rape victims being murdered after being drugged... it's usually the violent ones that are.
Dude you go into a hospital to be cared for, rape is a volatile dangerous situation where you are at the mercy of the rapist. When in that situation I would rather have my wits about me. You can play along, you can pretend to like it and you can try get the rapist to drop his guard, preferring to be asleep is depending upon the premise you are only getting raped and also after the fact reasoning, you were raped and that was all, so it would have been better to be sleeping, that I get, can't be any clearer, If he is planning to smother you afterwards, what chance do you have? You are ENTIRELY at the mercy of the rapist, no thanks.
Im really sorry to hear this mate, I totally get what you mean 'somehow you feel as if you were to blame' Its not easy, I think (like all major traumas) you learn to live with it in someway rather than get over it It will always be there but maybe now ive learnt to control my anger towards it better , maybe, im never 100% confident on this Phew, anywayyyyyy, this all a bit heavy isnt it! Roll on the footie!
All true lad, but it's great where you can get to a point where you can say it and not have any issues with that. Anger has it's place, focused where it needs to be. Mine is at the **** rings operating all over the world I never really had any anger as such, just the confusion, I never discussed it openly with anyone other than the police until I was 20 and that caused me the most problems. I am against simplifying it as Dawkins has. That's my main issue, it is never just "rape with drugs" or "rape with a knife".
Well I imagine something we could all agree on is the pithy sentences in this country for crimes like this which permanently change and often destroy peoples lives. The fact rolf was given 5 years when some of the kids he molested were 7 is atrocious. What are jail sentences now for rape? 15 years at an absolute max? Reality probably that most are out after 5 years. Much like murder, rape is the most selfish of crimes
****ing hell mate. That's absolutely horrendous. I'm pleased you came out the other side as well adjusted as you appear to be.
True, it is not nearly punished enough and the victim faces a serious challenge to get a conviction. People still believe women ask for it by the way they dress. Can you believe that! Like I said earlier the majority of rape cases are not reported, Corporate rape is rampant and hardly any cases ever see a court. I know first hand of such things in the Reinsurance corporate world, guys taking their cocks out and "saying grab that love". You'd be surprised how many keep schtum because they fear their careers will be over. Who will hire a girl that claimed rape in a mans corporate world. The stigma they are afraid of, In japan, most don't report it, they had to separate trains for men and women FFS because there were so many sexual assaults and rapes and old men grabbing minors.
