Today's Log My junior (26.5 years old) in the studio (originally from Leeds now Brighton) said he had a great weekend ... sat on the beach and dreamed he was a songwriter Exert from conference call witnessed today @ 9:00am: "Hi guys I am working on the MI ... great well that's all good ... Claire anything to add about this piece of work in my world before our bus stop meeting tomorrow? ... well it's all good it's a win win ... basically literally guys ... that's all good maybe chase up before tomorrow's meeting? ... what time? great that's good ... oh any performance updates from Friday's meeting? ... Ur maybe chase up Claire? ... I think all the pieces are in place so it's all positive ... Ok guys great to hear from you all until tomorrow ... what time is it again? OK I will probably be on the move but guys I can be reached if anything happens ... only 4 more days to the weekend ... cheers guys have a good one ... Ciao My documents team: Well maybe it is pirates they could of got onto the plane and hypnotised them all and i bet they have a underwater airport to hide them all ... those black boxes don't work underwater What did you do Paul? ... "I went into town to see expo about 3D printing" .. "what's that?" ... "why it will be possible to make actual real objects in the future ... well in fact its already here" "3D do you need glasses to see these objects?" "Yes" I replied "The world will all have to wear 3D glasses from now on" " Cool they said ... I want frames by Gucci or i am not taking part" SB73 it's going to be a hard task
Which is why we must never give up arguing for the opposite of received 'wisdom' and supporting the surreal and absurd. You are already leading the pack my friend, chin up, mustn't grumble. That post is worthy of Ballard, the highest possible praise from me. Modern life of the privileged.
We do need a new political ideology, I'm really not a big fan of commercialism/capitalism or a very big fan of Socialism, on paper they both look good but so far nobody has managed to make any of them work properly or in a fair way. I fully embrace globalism as I don't see this bit of land called England where I was born as mine. I'm just one of the 7 billion people on this planet doing this amazing trip called life. I believe in one world is enough for all of us and just don't do this xenophobic get off my land/out of my country crap! I used to be more a socialist in my youth but got fed up with some of the lefty's hatred of people with money who have made it. It often fell on deaf ears when I would explain that there is actually some rich people who made there cash fair and square through hard graft ect. Also I'm not trying to big up commercialism/capitalism but if you ask not all but most people what there dream would be I bet more would say it's to have loads of cash/win the lotto and not work any more, have a nice car, a house in the country ect, well that's not very socialist. If I won a large chunk of £££ I would get more pleasure giving most of it away to people who needed it more than I do. I don't know where this rambling is heading but I'm just not bothered about it all any more. I'v herd both sides of the argument and I'm just not sat on ether side of them, I wasted too many years of my life stressing about it to the point of not giving a toss anymore. Just live your life the best you can, respect and try to help one another and most of all try to enjoy it. We are not here for long! If anyone here has a good idea for a new politics which is not capitalism, socialism, communism or Marx then lets here your ideas!
Oh boy am I glad that I work for myself and don't have to get involved/listen to this sort of clap trap. When I worked in the Civil Service during the 90's it started going down the Corporate Speak road with "Focus Groups", "Team Listening" get togethers, it was mostly done to avoid doing any work and achieved very little...... Hve to say Dave that some of that did make me smile....
In that case then, the Falklands would remain British, as the people there wish to remain British. You asked earlier why I'd mentioned the Nazis. My point is this.............I really do wonder whether Hitler would have been challenged in the way that he was if there were as many Liberal minded, own Country hating people around then as there are now. A sense of patriotism and devotion to King and Country helped this country to stand up to the Nazis. Whilst I realise that times have changed and that devotion to Queen and Country is a little out dated, I seriously suspect that Hitler would have been appeased in the 30s if there were a majority of people around with your view point. Thank Christ there weren't!! Also, I would like to associate myself with all of Uber's comments on this thread.....Excellent stuff!
Well you would need to take into account the people of Argentina as well We can all wonder about Hitler ... trouble is people still do ... we have to be thankful he was a raving evil fool
The people of Argentina don't live on the Falklands. The Falkland Islanders wish to remain British and that's that. Hitler was indeed raving and evil. I'm not sure I agree that he was a fool. You never really commit do you, as Uber has pointed out? Do you think we were right to oppose Hitler, thus condemning millions and millions of people to death or not? Or would you have preferred it if we had avoided conflict, thus allowing Hitler to take over Europe?
DT, the Falklanders don't want independence, they wish to remain British, in which case they have the same say as the other 60-odd million British. Like I said to Sooper earlier, they do seem to want it both ways. If they wanted to be an independent State, that would be a different thing entirely. Oddball, can I ask you a question? Why is it always the war-mongers who "love" their Country but those who want peace apparently "hate" their Country? This has always puzzled me. Those that don't want their sons and daughters to end up in wooden boxes are somehow unpatriotic? That kind of nonsense is big in the US. Republicans sell patriotism like pimps and accuse the anti-war Democrats of not loving their Country. They did this in the lead up to and right throughout the Iraq war (and Vietnam), even when it became obvious the decision to go to war was disastrous. And the more kids (black, Asian and poor whites) that came back in coffins, the more they accused Liberals of "hating their Country" as they called for their children to be brought home. Of course none of their sons went and fought, just the lads from the ghettos and trailer parks. The hundreds of thousands of anti-war protesters across the UK a decade ago, if we're to believe some people, hated their own Country too. The possibility that they may have loved their Country so much that they didn't want it to get involved in a foreign war which was sure to be a catastrophe for everyone involved, is not even entertained. No, we want war so we love our nation. They want peace so they hate their nation. Its imbecilic actually when you think about it. Thankfully those kind of jingoistic morons are a small minority in most Countries.
This is far too simplistic and generalised imo. For instance, I was in favour of the Falkland's War and absolutely against the Iraq War. There is no "one-size-fits-all" answer to any of these things. Of course not all the people who go on anti-war marches are "own country haters", just as being patriotic doesn't automatically equal jingoism. No one ever seems to accuse the oppressed people of Countries where they are being kept under an iron fist as jingoistic. They are freedom fighters who want their Country to be free/fair etc etc. But these people will nearly always describe themselves as passionately patriotic. Also, in sport, if a small Nation is playing a larger Nation and is a huge underdog, the hugely patriotic fervour of those people is always applauded as being passionate. If the English or Americans behave in the same way they are immediately accused of being jingoistic or racist etc, usually by those on the left of the political spectrum. I am someone who abhors war and think it is only ever a last resort, or should be. I do however believe that taking on the terrible march of the Nazis was worth every, unfortunate life that was lost. I don't believe that so many would be willing to lay their lives on the line if the same thing arose today. I don't want to get into another row with you and it is clear that we see things very differently on many issues, but would you agree that some wars are a necessary evil or not? And do you think that this Country would be as keen to take on someone like Hitler these days?
All I will say on that matter COL is this: Godwin has now been invoked four times on this thread and every time it has been by you!
I'm sorry, but I have no idea who or what Godwin is. ???? Edit..........ok just googled Godwin. So what? My mention of Hitler was completely relevant to the point I was making. (Christ, there's an awful lot of crap out there on the internet!) Also, I tried to engage you with reasoned argument, but as usual, you only highlight one part of my post and don't address anything that I asked. Oh well..............pretty typical of you. I won't bother again.
Col has been far too kind with his compliments, for which I am grateful but, of course, unworthy. He is quite correct, however, when he criticises Swords' comments regarding patriotism, although Swords also offers an interesting perspective in this. I thought it fascinating that the late Christopher Hitchens (a darling of the left) was an enthusiastic supporter of the Iraq War, whereas Peter Hitchens (quite the opposite) remains an ardent opponent of this action. Let's also not forget that two of the chief protagonists in this was were an extremely right-wing US President and a cynical, snide and fatuous left-wing British Prime Minister. Of course, there are myriad reasons why people from the two ends of the political spectrum (if, indeed, there are only two ends...) reach the conclusions that they reach, some undoubtedly worth, others less so. The question of whether Britain was right to declare war on Germany in 1939 or not is also an intriguing one. Given that the eventual reason for Britain's declaration was the German invasion of Poland, observers might call it disappointing that the immediate post-war outcome for the Poles under Soviet Russia was possibly more ghastly than under German subjugation. Of course, removing Hitler and his Nazi cohorts did the world a great service, but it came at the huge price of circa fifty years of the Iron Curtain. Nazism was replaced by Stalinism. As we approach the commemoration of one hundred years since the outbreak of the First World War, it is fitting to also reflect of the series of unintended consequences that unarguably avoidable conflict instigated. Without the so-called Great War (what was so great about it?) it is quite possible that there would have been no birth of Nazism and consequently no WWII, no expansion of Stalinism and no Cold War. Generations of children would not have had to be raised by widowed mothers in fatherless homes, in turn potentially lending weight to the rise of the teenager in the 1950s onwards, the rise of the women's liberation movement and the liberal Baby-Boomer generation of the 1960s onwards. There would have been no bankrupt Britain, forced to ship its gold reserves to the US, ever to remain a patronised lapdog of the Americans since. There may not have been the artificially created state of Israel, propped up by the West and ever since the focal point of Middle Eastern unrest. The conundrums and possibilities are endless. In fact, the two major conflicts of the 20th century changed this country irretrievably... and not necessarily for the better. I have a pretty jaundiced worldview, I'm afraid. I suspect I'm shallow.
Fair enough mate. Your post above is reasonable and quite accurate to be fair. Regarding nationalistic people of small Countries not being considered jingoistic, I would argue that those type of people are just as bad as their counterparts from large, powerful Countries. What you tend to get from such people is narrow-minded insularism. They believe their own cause to be almost God-like and they're in a permanent state of victimhood, always dragging up the past as if its relevant to modern times. Fingi is a top bloke but I've found that in one or two of his posts when it comes to Ireland. (Top bloke though mind ) Regarding the sporting thing and small nations vs big nations etc, totally agree. Nothing more to say on that one. Yes, I do believe there are just wars and unjust wars. The problem of course is that everyone has a different opinion of what's just and what's not! I also think the word "terrorist" gets bandied about a bit too often when discussing World conflicts. For example, I don't distinguish between say car bombers and plane bombers. If either is carelessly bombing a place with not too much concern for the innocent civilians in the area, they're equally worthy of the name "terrorist" whether they happen to have a uniform on their back or not. They're both engaging in violence for political purposes. Obviously, within that again there are distinctions. For example one could argue that Dresden was an act of mass murder or that it was a necessary operation to bring the Germans to heel.......and it worked. When Nelson Mandela was involved in bombing apartheid South Africa where his people were practically enslaved in their own Country, he was called a terrorist by the west. But then Western Powers can go around dropping bombs and killing people all over the World and they're simply "engaging in just wars"? I call bullsh*t on that. That's my position mate. Probably not too far removed from your own when I think about it.
Agree the wars were about different stuff . I love the UK but I have grown sick and cynical about what has happened to the culture. We make very little here now and private corporations have replaced basic services we pay our taxes for Private corporations are run to make money I worked in R&D for many years in pharmaceuticals that takes it toll before moving into marketing and design again you get to see things that are very wrong Inside I believe we all face a battle and in my case I believe the better things won out Hitler was a fool because he had us on the ropes yet let us off as my dad told me Recent years this country has made some dreadful decisions and us in the UK are too numb to do anything collective ... We find it hard to say good morning to our neighbours and most families have both parents working to pay the debts which cannot be sustained London is being socially engineered and is based on a foundation of gamblers playing a game that also can't be sustained Of course I am a hypocrite and have planned a new course in France but its a cheaper option and when things don't go right there then they dynamite the sheep because the government are servants of the people ... We don't even care here any longer and question very little collectively Big difference
Mossadegh in the 50's and the British Oil Companies ... One financial hit man Roosevelt from the CIA did for him and the world was told a story of revolt and welcomed back a puppet and the money was channelled back through the World Bank This was considered the start of it all Spin is cheaper than war Guatemala 54 United Fruit v Guzman Pretty soon the world believed he was a red communist ... Gone Ecuador 81 Aguilera won a landslide and wanted to help the people with the profits from oil so they tried the cheap way to corrupt him he wouldn't do it ... Gone Panama 81 Torrijos wouldn't take the US bribes and his price for getting something back on the canal ? A plane crash Venezuela 2002 One man stands up next his has a sponsored US coup on his hands and he stood firm IRAQ 2003 Economic hit men failed The Jackalls failed because Sadaam used to work for the CIA So new step and in went the troops Spared Saddam but he still couldn't be brought ... Good for him IMO So he got another kicking and in the end they got him and Halliburton cleaned up It's all built of money ... Well debt and interest that can never be paid from money that was invented in the first place ... Ie printed Bob Crow made waves and big ones which now sees train drivers earn a good wage ... He was doing his job a good job but the clock was ticking?
The rise of Nazism leads back to the failure of the German Revolution as indeed could be said albeit indirectly of the paranoia of Stalin combined of course with the Allied intervention post the October Revolution to which Britain was the major participant. The Soviet Union and its heroic people broke the back of german fascism for which we should be eternally grateful. 25,000,000 Soviet citizens laid down their lives in the Great Patriotic War, more than 50 times the British casualty rate. The failure of the German Revolution changed history, if it had succeeded WW2 would never have happened nor would Hitler ever have risen to power. History absent from Uk school curriculums of course.
There is always a danger in trying to simplify history, hence my careful use of 'might', 'possible', 'potential', 'may' etc., but I am grateful to Imaz for his expansion of the theme. That seems to have been a recurring theme of nationalism and expansionism in relatively recent episodes of German history, as perhaps evidenced by Bismarck in the 19th century. On the topic of the Soviets doing us all a favour and ridding the world of Nazism, it is interesting to note that, thanks to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Soviet supplies of oil and other materials to Germany fuelled the 1940 Blitzkrieg, and continued to be delivered right up to Operation Barbarossa, thus rendering the British naval blockade at the time ineffective. Without the Soviet Union's assistance at this time it has been argued that Germany would have found an invasion of Poland difficult to execute.
