Go on tell us how you would actually do it. Kick his head in, disembowel and castrate him braveheart style?
Imaz, I can honestly say that I would be prepared to flick the switch or pull the lever. I don't think it reasonable to support something like this if (assuming that you're fit and able to) you're not prepared to take the action yourself. I cannot say how I might feel after doing this or in what way such action might change me as a person. It is quite possible that my attitude to capital punishment may soften as a consequence of my experience.
This thread is taking a rather dark path......... My up coming night shift is gonna be fun reading this
I would say, with regard the Death Penalty, is that certain crimes should be punished by execution. There is a big difference in 2 lads having a punch up, and one punching the other, causing a fatal injury.....to a c*** like Robert Black, who went out to rape, torture and kill little girls. Both involve the act of killing, but only one should demand the punishment of death....(only my opinion of course)
Indeed, may I quote Albert Pierrepoint, Britain's last executioner, on Capital Punishment and its effectiveness as a deterrent to murder: "It is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree. There have been murders since the beginning of time, and we shall go on looking for deterrents until the end of time. If death were a deterrent, I might be expected to know. It is I who have faced them last, young men and girls, working men, grandmothers. I have been amazed to see the courage with which they take that walk into the unknown. It did not deter them then, and it had not deterred them when they committed what they were convicted for. All the men and women whom I have faced at that final moment convince me that in what I have done I have not prevented a single murder." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint )
Yes, it was Pierrepoint that I had in mind when I wrote my earlier piece. One has to respect his opinion, but that's different to accepting that he's totally correct. Of course, what he did failed to prevent a single murder that was committed by those he executed, but how could he (or anybody else for that matter) know for sure that what he did deterred others from committing murder. Nobody other than a would-be murderer who had second thoughts would be able to say this, and they'd hardly fill in a survey to that effect, would they? I admit that this is all a bit "eye for an eye..." for some tastes, but I do believe that those that choose to unlawfully deny somebody of their life in these ways should also be denied the remainder of theirs.
Pierrepoint was an interesting character. I came across him before. He was Ireland's executioner too, carrying out the last one in 1954. "The Irish government had tried to train their own hangman, an Irishman called Johnston. While observing Pierrepoint work at Strangeways Prison, Johnston went white at the sight of death and quit. There werenât enough executions in Ireland to provide full-time employment for a hangman anyway. So, for the last four executions in Ireland, Pierrepoint made the trip from England to do the deed right." Wouldn't it have been Pierrepoint then that strung Lord Haw Haw up?
Yes it was Pierrepoint. In Wandsworth prison. http://www.nickelinthemachine.com/2...of-lord-haw-haw-at-wandsworth-prison-in-1946/
Apart from being totally uncivilised, I'm afraid the death penalty isn't a deterrent. You only have to look at the USA's vast murder rate to see that. Ensuring prison sentences are sufficiently long and prison is suitably harsh is pretty much all we've got. The 'get 10 years out in 5' system we have now is a disaster though. You will never deter people who are sick enough to have the compunction to kill, from killing IMO.
I suggest that you read my other posts on this thread, Chaz, in which I have dealt with the difference between the US and UK cultures already; presumably to the satisfaction of everybody because nobody has cared to come back on any of my points. I have also mentioned one aspect of deterrence, i.e. joint enterprise, again to which there has been no counter to date, but I have acknowledged, however, that it is nigh on impossible to measure deterrence. But is this reason enough to dismiss it? Not in my opinion (but I believe I may be in the minority). On the 'you will never deter people who...have the compunction to kill' point; well, as again I said earlier, I don't particularly wish to share my world with people who put such a low value on human life. This has been called exacting vengeance and displaying a knee-jerk, Daily Mail reader blood lust, but it's a perfectly rational viewpoint taken by somebody who - and I flatter myself here - has a reasonable amount of intelligence and can navigate through the complexities of important issues such as this. It is interesting that equally, if not far more intelligent, individuals can do the same, yet hold a diametrically opposite view. It must boil down to what the gut says, rather than the head. But I don't see that as a contradiction. It is similar to how two equally intelligent individuals can sit on opposing sides of the political spectrum. It is also fascinating and refreshingly honest of some contributors to admit that they may change the position they hold we're they (God forbid) to experience the loss of a loved one is circumstances similar to the murder of Millie Dowler. I have no issues with admitting that the red mist of vengeance would fall on me in such circumstances. Perhaps people such as Flyer (who likes to make Daily Mail reader* barbs such as this) would be far more in control of their emotions? *I no more read the Daily Mail as any other newspaper.
Personally, deterrent issue is quite secondary, the fact is where there is NO doubt of guilt, the death penalty should be in place.
The trouble is there has to be no doubt to get any conviction and they still get it wrong. The system is not good enough to get it right, especially with the police fitting lots of people up. I may agree with your idealism but never with the practicality.
Great discussion lads. Just for clarity I don't have any problem about the motivation for execution being vengeance, just think we should be explicit about it. I'm still not able to make up my mind 100%, against in principle, reserve the right to change my position if ever in the unimaginable circumstances experienced by Shefford. On a different but possibly related point, interesting article in the Sunday Times about an elderly lady who availed herself of the assisted suicide services of Dignitas in Zurich. Interesting because she was not terminally ill or disabled. Health not great but her decision seemed to be motivated by extreme tiredness and boredom with the modern world and fear of a decline in health removing her quality of life and meaning she had to be institutionalized somewhere. I am 100% in favour of assisted suicide, for anybody who wants it for whatever reason. Obviously with safeguards to ensure people aren't bullied into it or make decisions when not fully in control of their faculties, can't be a decide today, do it tomorrow thing, must involve discussion, counselling, medical advice etc etc. It makes for a clean, managed end and gives people the chance to explain their decision to loved ones etc, unlike unassisted suicide which is often messy, extremely distressing and confusing, and traumatic for people not directly involved (train drivers etc). I have some personal experience of this. My only fear if we had this in the UK would be our ability to cock it up somehow, allow a three year waiting list to emerge, etc etc. Thoughts? Like the death penalty I'm not expecting consensus on this, and hope for a respectful discussion.
Assisted suicide is in principle a good idea. I am sure we have all experienced the agony of seeing a loved one gradually expiring from an incurable illness such as cancer. My dear dad passed away from liver cancer in 2007 and had it not been for the wonderful staff at St Johns Hospice in Moggerhanger his final days would have been unbearable for him and his loved ones. If he had not been so well cared for and had asked me to administer a fatal dose to end his suffering, I would have done so because I loved him, and still do. Even as I write I have tears in my eyes.
