And as far as reading up on the subject, I've done a fair amount of research and I've also visited Israel. No idea why your talking about the settlements to me, it's a policy I think is totally wrong. You seem too stupid to understand that there is more than "I hate Israel" or "I hate Palestine", there is a middle ground and that is where the reality of the situation lays. Edit: realised you actually spoke about settlements in your reply to luv not me! So ignore my second line lol P.s. Your last paragraph makes you sound like a right dick!
Luv, I already made my argument long before ROFLAFCLMAO showed up with his tragic defence of Israel. It is not my fault he is not prepared to read the thread, lot of good stuff in there from people who live in it, which supercedes anything you or I have to say about it. Most of what I post is either fact or valid credible, very credible sources and video accounts of what goes on. What defines a state or who started what really are at this point illegitimate arguments. The argument is why has Israel continued an illegal operation occupation and land stealing when it is against international law, the ignored day to day destruction of homes farms factories, the shooting of kids and adults, the people who die in israeli military prisons from torture, no one gets to see them or ensure they are gien rights pretty much like Gitmo inmates, law we are so readily applying to Iran Iraq Syria Ukraine Russia ect. For whackjobs to criticise Russia and back Israel, is hilarious and yet they do not even see their own contradictions. Everything EVERYTHING Israel uses as a defence of their racist policies is debunkable to the extreme. That is always true when taking on audacious lies There are voices in israel against the racist genocide and ethnic cleansing. Like these guys http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...servists-refuse-serve-palestinian-territories Israeli intelligence veterans refuse to serve in Palestinian territories Forty-three veterans of one of Israel’s most secretive military intelligence units – many of them still active reservists – have signed a public letter refusing to serve in operations involving the occupied Palestinian territories because of the widespread surveillance of innocent residents. The signatories include officers, former instructors and senior NCOs from the country’s equivalent of America’s NSA or Britain’s GCHQ, known as Unit 8200 – or in Hebrew as Yehida Shmoneh-Matayim. They allege that the “all-encompassing” intelligence the unit gathers on Palestinians – much of it concerning innocent people – is used for “political persecution” and to create divisions in Palestinian society. The largest intelligence unit in the Israeli military, Unit 8200 intercepts electronic communications including email, phone calls and social media in addition to targeting military and diplomatic traffic. The signatories say, however, that a large part of their work was unrelated to Israel’s security or defence, but appeared designed to perpetuate the occupation by “infiltrating” and “controlling” all aspects of Palestinian life. Written in uncompromising language the letter states: “We, veterans of Unit 8200, reserve soldiers both past and present, declare that we refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as tools in deepening the military control over the Occupied Territories.” They add: “The Palestinian population under military rule is completely exposed to espionage and surveillance by Israeli intelligence. It is used for political persecution and to create divisions within Palestinian society by recruiting collaborators and driving parts of Palestinian society against itself. In many cases, intelligence prevents defendants from receiving a fair trial in military courts, as the evidence against them is not revealed.” Accompanying the letter – published in the Israeli media on Friday, and organised several months before the recent Gaza war – are a series of testimonies provided by the signatories to Yedioth Ahronoth and shared with the Guardian. A common complaint, made in both the testimonies and in interviews given by some of the signatories, including to the Guardian this week, is that some of the activities the soldiers were asked to engage in had more in common with the intelligence services of oppressive regimes than of a democracy. Among allegations made in the statements are that: • A significant proportion of the unit’s Palestinian objectives “are innocent people unconnected to any military activity. They interest the unit for other reasons, usually without having the slightest idea that they’re intelligence targets.” According to the testimonies those targets were not treated any differently from terrorists. • Personnel were instructed to keep any damaging details of Palestinians’ lives they came across, including information on sexual preferences, infidelities, financial problems or family illnesses that could be “used to extort/blackmail the person and turn them into a collaborator”. • Former members claim some intelligence gathered by the unit was not collected in the service of the Israeli state but in pursuit of the “agendas” of individual Israeli politicians. In one incident, for which no details have been provided, one signatory recalls: “Regarding one project in particular, many of us were shocked as we were exposed to it. Clearly it was not something we as soldiers were supposed to do. The information was almost directly transferred to political players and not to other sections of the security system.” • Unit members swapped intercepts they gathered involving “sex talk” for their own entertainment. The letter has been sent to the chief of staff of Israel’s armed forces and also the head of military intelligence. Unit 8200 is one of the most prestigious in the Israeli public’s mind, with many who serve in it going on to high-flying jobs after their military service, many in Israel’s hi-tech sector. According to an article this year in Haaretz, former unit members include a supreme court justice, the director general of the finance ministry, an internationally successful author, the chief executive of one of Israel’s largest accountancy firms and the economy ministry’s chief scientist. Operating a signals interception base, the unit is also at the front of Israel’s cyberwar capabilities. According to some reports – never confirmed – it was involved in developing the Stuxnet virus used to attack Iran’s nuclear programme. Most of those who signed the letter have served in the unit in the last decade – as recently as three years ago in full-time military service – with the majority still on the active reserve list, meaning they can be called up at any time. All of those who spoke to the Guardian said they were “highly motivated” to join the unit and had volunteered to serve extra time in it beyond their national service. Although there have been “refusenik” letters before – most famously more than a decade ago when a group of reserve pilots refused to participate in targeted assassinations – such detailed complaints from within Israel’s intelligence services are highly unusual. Three of those involved, two sergeants and a captain who gave interviews to the Guardian and a handful of other foreign media before the letter was released this week, were at pains to make clear they were not interested in disclosing state secrets. They had engaged a high-profile lawyer to avoid breaking Israeli law – including by identifying themselves in public. Copies of the letter sent to their unit commander, however, use their full names. Those involved told the Guardian they were proud of some of the work they had done, which they believed had contributed to Israel’s security. In their interviews, they described a culture of impunity where soldiers were actively discouraged in training lessons from questioning the legality of orders, and of being deliberately misled by commanders about the circumstances of a case in which one member of their unit refused to cooperate in the bombing of a building with civilians in it in retaliation for an attack in Israel. They added that there were in effect “no rules” governing which Palestinians could be targeted and that the only restraint on their intelligence gathering in the occupied territories was “resources”. “In intelligence – in Israel intelligence regarding Palestinians – they don’t really have rights,” said Nadav, 26, a sergeant, who is now a philosophy and literature student in Tel Aviv. “Nobody asks that question. It’s not [like] Israeli citizens, where if you want to gather information about them you need to go to court.” He said: “The intelligence gathering about Palestinians is not clean. When you rule a population that does not have political rights, laws like we have, [then] the nature of this regime of ruling over people, especially when you do it for many years, [is that] it forces you to take control or infiltrate every aspect of their life.” “D”, a 29-year-old captain who served for eight years, added: “[That] question is one of the messages that we feel it is very important to get across mostly to the Israeli public. “That is a very common misconception about intelligence … when we were enlisting in the military [we thought] our job is going to be minimising violence, minimising loss of lives, and that made the moral side of it feel much easier.” He added: “What the IDF does in the occupied territories is rule another people. One of the things you need to do is defend yourself from them, but you also need to oppress the population. “You need to weaken the politics. You need to strengthen and deepen your control of Palestinian society so that the [Israeli] state can remain [there] in the long term. We can’t talk about specifics … [but] intelligence is used to apply pressure to people to make them cooperate with Israel. “It’s important to say, the reason I decided to refuse – and I decided to refuse long before the recent [Gaza] operation. It was when I realised that what I was doing was the same job that the intelligence services of every undemocratic regime are doing. “This realisation was what made me [realise] personally that I’m part of this large mechanism that is trying to defend or perpetuate its presence in the occupied territories.” The last major refusenik episode in Israel to grab the public’s attention was in 2002 when 27 reserve pilots published a letter refusing to fly assassination sorties over Gaza after 14 civilians, including children, were killed alongside Salah Shehade, the leader of Hamas’s military wing, in a bombing. Nadav made a reference to the killing – and the outcry that surrounded it. “When you look at what happened this summer, when building after building were destroyed and the inhabitants and hundreds of innocent people were killed and no one raised an eyebrow, as opposed to just one decade ago when the killing of a family of a commander of Hamas shocked people. It was a huge story in Israel.” Replying to the refusenik letter and the allegations, a spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces criticised the soldiers for making their complaints public, and attempted to cast doubt on the claims. “The intelligence corps has no record that the specific violations in the letter ever took place. Immediately turning to the press instead of to their officers or relevant authorities is suspicious and raises doubts as to the seriousness of the claims. “Regarding claims of harm caused to civilians, the IDF maintains a rigorous process which takes into account civilian presence before authorising strikes against targets.”
Israeli soldier gets captured. What does the IDF do? Acting on Winter’s “Hannibal” order (kill captured Israeli soldiers) the Israeli army sealed off Rafah to prevent the alleged captors from escaping with Goldin alive. Homes were flattened on top of families sheltering inside. Civilians who attempted to flee the inferno were torn to shreds by artillery. Vehicles trying desperately to evacuate the wounded were fired upon. All that to prevent an Israeli soldier being captured alive.
In just this one round of Israel "mowing the lawn" during protective edge please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image please log in to view this image Here are the facts not being reported by them media from Jan 1st up to the 3 Israeli teens going missing: From January 1 to May 31 of this year, Israel kidnapped 2,330 Palestinians and held them in Israeli prisons. During these months, there were an average of 203 Palestinian children in Israeli jails on any given day. Palestinians held captive by Israel can be denied access to a lawyer for up to 90 days, and torture is routine. But the media only expresses outrage when Israelis are kidnapped and held prisoner by Palestinians. From January 1 to June 12 of this year, Israelis killed approximately 30 Palestinians (Hamas started it?) , 4 of them children. None of the Israeli killers were held accountable for the murders. Mainstream media outlets almost never reported on any of these killings. Yet everyone was made aware of the names of the three Israelis abducted and murdered in June. Since "Operation Protective Edge" began (July 8 through August 11), Israeli forces have killed 2,168 Palestinians, 519 of them children. During this time, Palestinian resistance forces killed 71 Israelis, one of whom was a child. Approximately 77 percent of the Palestinians killed during this period were civilians, while approximately 9 percent of the Israelis killed were civilians. Hamas did not attack Israel first. Israel bombed the homes of three families and killed two Palestinians (one of whom was 10-years-old) in Gaza before a single Hamas rocket was launched back. Additionally, Israel killed 186 Palestinians from July 8 to July 14 before the first Israeli was killed on July 15. Israel actually rejected legitimate ceasefire offers throughout this crisis, not Hamas. The ceasefire Hamas has offered Israel would ensure that Gazans have the same freedoms that most people view as basic human rights (right to trade with other nations, right to travel freely, right to worship at Holy places, etc). please log in to view this image 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians, and over 28,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. This is how you cleanse the land of people your racist ideology wants removed. Destroy their homes and do not give permits to build any more, this is an official program in Jerusalem and othe parts of Israel. The killing and destruction has been happening in this region since the immigrants arrived almost 9 decades ago. The similarities to what happened the native American indians is striking.
The Untold Story of the Shejaiya Massacre in Gaza 2014: A Former Israel Soldier Speaks Out http://m.democracynow.org/stories/14642
Einstein rejected Racist terrorist Zionism and refers to that land as "Palestine". The year 1948, the famous scientist Albert Einstein wrote to Shepard Rifkin, American Zionist leader. This letter was in response to requests for the Zionists to have the support of Einstein. This was posted on April 10, 1948, a day after the world knew the results of the horrific slaughter of Deir Yassin. please log in to view this image
Israel's behaviour reminds me of this order from Naples in 1943: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_days_of_Naples 1. Every single citizen who behaves calmly will enjoy my protection. On the other hand, anyone who openly or surreptitiously acts against the German armed forces will be executed. Moreover, the home of the miscreant and its immediate surroundings will be destroyed and reduced to ruins. Every German soldier wounded or murdered will be avenged a hundred times. 2. I order a curfew from 8 pm to 6 am. Only in case of alarm will it be allowed to use the road in order to reach the nearest shelter. 3. A state of siege is proclaimed. 4. Within 24 hours all weapons and ammunition of any kind, including shotguns, hand grenades, etc., must be surrendered. Anyone who, after that period, is found in possession of a weapon will be immediately executed. The delivery of weapons and ammunition shall be made to the German military patrols. 5. People must keep calm and act reasonably. Sound familiar?
Sounds familiar alright, eerily so. People just dont get that a jewish State for Jews is an entirely racist concept. How do you keep a state Jewish? Only through ethnic cleansing and expulsion and control of the non Jewish population. Arab Israelis make up 20% of the population and are outgrowing the Jewish population, Israel sees this as a problem, who else sees things like that as a problem? BNP in the UK who say Muslims are breeding too fast Add to that forcibly sterilising 130,000 african migrant women to reduce the future African Israeli population by 20%, hello, Eugenics, racism. This ehtnic cleansing of Jerusalem by destroying homes of Arabs and not giving them a permit to build another along with the sterilisation and restrictions of Arabs to build homes all over Israel is how they are implementing their racist plan of keeping Israel Jewish, or at least a Jewish minority, the last thing Israel wants is 60 70% of the population to be non Jewish. Being of Semitic origin is neither here nor there as Semitic Palestinians will tell you. Zionism is actually antisemitic. Irony?
This is how the media back up Israel, original image top fake image bottom, the IDF do this all of the time and give the altered images to ABC CNN and Fox news They flip the image and add new flags. please log in to view this image
Do you have any proof at all of that picture being used as a propaganda tool by anyone who isn't sat in front of there computer at home? Because that's a terrible attempt at photo shop and any idiot who believes that is real doesn't live in the 21st century.
Anyone remember that film with Samuel L Jackson called "A time to Kill". Remember Matthew McConaughy final closing argument? To anyone who wants to look at this objectively, I mean really objectively, with no bias and with an open mind? Consider this... Imagine Israel was a muslim state. Imagine if after 1000+ years of co-existance, an extremist muslim group decided that a piece of land belonged to them BECAUSE THEIR RELIGION SAID SO. On that basis, imagine they stated that as an islamic state, muslims had preferential rights to the rest of the population. Imagine it exiled millions of jews out of their homes and land. The rest they ghetto-ised, to all intents and purposes under air, land and sea imprisonment. Imagine Israel carried out extra-judicial killings of the ghetto jews (without any trial) using helicopter gunships. Imagine they bombed and killed thousands of civilians including women and children. Now imagine how the world would react? What would be their opinion of a jewish resistant movement called Hamas? Imagine how you'd feel if the people being killed and persecuted looked like you? When I hear the desperate lengths people go to, to misdirect us away from the simple truth of who the persecutor is and who the victim is here, I pity their prejudices.
Brilliantly put mate. Couldn't have said it better. What you say gets at the reality of what is going on. Others will ignore stuff like this and go at the only bits they can, like what Google maps shows in israel or talk about Hamas, but those people don't want to talka bout Hamas now that israel is still killing stealing land and propagating racist apartheid hate with no rockets firing. I wonder how Brits who support Israel would feel about it if it was them and people who looked like them. @AFC If this is what google maps showed would you accept it as legitimate reasoning as you did by posting the link to google maps of Israel and palestine? or rather, google maps just has Israel and no Palestine at all please log in to view this image 1.6 billion Muslims, 0.01% or less are being used to make villains of the other 99.9%. Britain first is England's fastest growing political group and tey are a BNP spitoff group, purely racist xenophobes.
To be fair to you, I have being trying to source the original of that photo but can't find it. It COULD be altered either way I agree. However, this Hamas manual the IDF officially released supposedly documenting the use of human shields, of which the US ran with. FAKE FAKE FAKE. This guy clearly and undeniably exposes the fake [video=youtube;boAYuOgqzJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=boAYuOgqzJQ[/video] More Israeli quality propaganda, this is supposed to be Hamas in Gaza using human shields. Ludicrous lies please log in to view this image
Some of the destruction from Israel's "defence" of it's self. Before some delusional Pro Israel mentions Hamas, Israel in 2014 alone killed 30 Palestinians and beat and or kidnapped several hundred including minros and illegally detained them without charge. Demolished homes and farmland. Fired on fishermen from jan 2014 to june 2014. This all before Hamas did anything. Can't go to Gaza unless Israel says so. Can't leave Gaza unless Israel says so. Israel controls the air seaand land and food and supplies, totally and utterly. This is no different than any other conecntration camp. 36 massacres. 7 Decades of hell. Hamas my bollocks. Some of the damage inflicted in 7 weeks of barbarism Israel instigated through a policy of treating people in a way you wouldn't treat your own pet dog. Damaged 17 out of 32 hospitals and 45 out of 97 primary health clinics, with four hospitals and five clinics remaining closed as of Sept. 6. Destroyed 12 pharmacies (and killed three pharmacists). Demolished Gaza’s only medicine company, the Middle East Pharmaceutical and Cosmetics Laboratories. Destroyed 126 businesses and workshops and damaged 360, including food processing plants. Destroyed 22 schools and damaged 118. Damaged an estimated 18,000 housing units so severely that approximately 108,000 people have been left homeless. Damaged water and wastewater systems, leaving Gazans with an acute lack of potable water. Only 10 percent of the population receive water once a day. Destroyed 73 mosques and damaged 203. Some of those demolished were ancient historic sites, such as the seventh-century Al Omari Mosque in Jabaliya. Destroyed 42,000 acres of farmland and half of the poultry stock. (This was reported as of Aug. 14, 12 days before the ceasefire.) Left large swathes of farmland inaccessible “due to the presence of [explosive remnants of war] and other explosive hazards. How much must it fcuking suck to watch Israeli settlers be given your farm land and then because you are ruined you have to get a job building the Israeli settlements on the land they just stole from you.
On August 26, a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was agreed upon, bringing a fragile end to a war that killed roughly 2,150 Palestinians (mostly civilians) and 73 Israelis (mostly soldiers). Since then Hamas has not fired a single rocket, attacked an Israeli target, or done anything to break the terms of the ceasefire. Israel has done the following: --Annexed another 1500 acres of West Bank land --Seized $56 million of PA tax revenue --Not lifted the illegal blockade (as required by the ceasefire) --Broken the ceasefire by firing at fishermen on four separate occasions and detaining six --Killed a 22-year-old, Issa al Qatari, a week before his wedding --Killed 16-year-old Mohammed Sinokrot with a rubber bullet to the head --Tortured a prisoner to the point of hospitalization --Refused 13 members of the European Parliament entry into Gaza --Detained at least 127 people across the West Bank, including a seven-year-old boy in Hebron and two children, aged seven and eight, taken from the courtyard of their house in Silwan – and tear-gassed their mother --Continued to hold 33 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in prison as well as 500 prisoners in administrative detention without charge or trial --Destroyed Bedouin homes in Khan al Ahmar, near Jerusalem, leaving 14 people homeless, and unveiled a plan to forcibly move thousands of Bedouin away from Jerusalem into two purpose-built townships --Destroyed a dairy factory in Hebron whose profits supported an orphanage, a family home in Silwan (making five children homeless), and a house in Jerusalem where aid supplies en route to Gaza were being stored --Destroyed a well and set fire to an olive grove near Hebron --Raided a health centre and a nursery school in Nablus, causing extensive damage --Destroyed a swathe of farmland in Rafah by driving tanks over it --Ordered the dismantling of a small monument in Jerusalem to Mohamed Abu Khdeir, the teenager murdered in July by an Israeli lynch mob --Continued building a vast tunnel network under Jerusalem --Stormed the al Aqsa mosque compound with a group of far right settlers --Assisted hundreds of settlers in storming Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus --Prevented students from entering al Quds University, firing stun grenades and rubber bullets at those who tried to go in --Earned unknown millions on reconstruction materials for Gaza, where 100,000 people need their destroyed homes rebuilt. The total bill is estimated at $7.8 billion List compiled by a blogger at the London Review of Books. See sources: bit.ly/1rVNdJV
Read this recent John Pilger article :Breaking the last taboo,Gaza and the threat of world war. (Can't do the link) Pilger is a very well respected journo of the last 40 plus years.
Had a gander, good read. The thread of world war, Israel is central to it, it seems more like an agenda than a threat to be honest. IS appeared out of nowhere apparently, but only after the US and European public refused to accept war with Syria. I mean, we are supposed to believe that IS operated for 10 years without anyone noticing, remember the US were in Iraq during this time, a stone's throw away in military terms. Ah sure, they armed them for 2 years and know that IS actually make up 40% of the Free Syrian Army. The US and world knew these were butchering entire villages in Syria, cutting out hearts and eating them, beheadings galore, and not a peep. Queue a few fake beheading videos.. sourced by one woman, Rita Kratz, linked to the DOD State department and is an anti Muslim activist who's father was executed for being an Israeli spy. She co counded the private company the US is getting these videos from, which come from anon Twitter accounts. Never mind the absolute joke that is the Foley video, green farmland in the background and not one drop of blood from almost 12 sawing cuts from the knife, not a drop... The aftershot is so fake it ain't even fully, rubber head fake blood, it is a terrible fake. I have unfortunately seen real beheading videos, there is so much blood it's unreal, but not in the foley video. isn't it strange that IS are so religiously intollerant, yet Israel is not even slightly bothered by IS, given the proximity of Israel to Sryia, IS would, if they were real, chosen that target as Israel would be the biggest threat to the IS mission of creating the IS state given the close ties to the US. Also, if IS have really undertook such a huge mission, why on earyth would you drag NATO into it ? Strategically, that is childlike and not fitting with obviously tech savvy PR savvy tactically savvy supposedly.. IS. Israel has also being taking IS fighters into hospital, this was reported on, they are tending to IS fighters fro SYria and have been assisting IS with airstrikes. All of this is to get at Iran, Syria and Iran have a mutual defence agreement. Russia and China back Iran and Syria, so in that context it makes much more sense of the US in Ukraine, and the buildup in Asia, to put off Russia and China when Iran and Syria get attacked. This could well lead to WWIII
Just to be clear, your latest claims are that ISIS are a conspiracy set up by the eu and us to destabilise the Middle East and gain popularity for a war in Syria? Just want to be sure that's what your actually suggesting? And this is supported by Israel and ultimately some sort of plot to gain the upper hand against Russia and China in world war 3?
An average of six Palestinians a week lose their Jerusalem residency through official policies aimed at replacing the indigenous residents with Jewish settlers. An Israeli high court hearing recently rejected a challenge to this racist set of policies. Ethnic cleansing as state policy. There is just no defending this kind of thing.
