Its not an american policy. Its the policy of all superior nations when confronted by the enemy to pummel to the ground. Has been since time began. right or wrong, you as a leader would use whats available to you if confronted by the enemy. You are right it doesnt work in this instance ( has done previously, world war 2, we leveled much of Germany, US nuked Japan ) but thats partly due to the fact Hamas are not a legally elected government and do not represent the Palestinian people. Infact Hamas are responsible for a huge % of the deaths to their own people. They dont care. They can use it against Israel in the propaganda war.
It's not what I believe or think that matters. It is what they believe and think that will drive their attitudes and actions. Now your second scentence clearly demonstrates that you have no true understanding of their position or thinking. You make a dogmatic statement based upon what? You have already dismissed even the idea of attempting to understand them. Understanding somebody's position does not mean that you agree with them. However, it does give you an insight into into what may help them and you arrive at a sustainable solution. However, if you wish then you can stay in you foxhole and make useless comments like "I expected them to be the bigger person in this conflict"
You offer nothing to the debate, why don't you contribute your opinion on the situation rather than slate my opinion? What is it that they want? Peace in the middle East? There is nothing wrong with what I said, they want to live in their "ancestral homeland" free of any threat from organisations like Hamas and co. They just sit their itching for Hamas to throw a pot shot couple of rockets at their iron dome so they can steamroll in. On my original post, that 96% of questioned israeli's believing Israel's response was proportionate and acceptable, do you have a view on that? or are you wedged on the fence?
Its incorrect. Thats my view. Another poll suggests 70% want a 2 state solution. Maybe they change their minds often?
Constructive. What is incorrect, the poll? or my view? And what does a poll about a 2 state solution have to do with a poll about Israel's response in this current conflict? They're completely seperate
Yes I do offer a great deal to the debate, it's just that you appear to be too arrogant to understand that. If you bothered to ask them then I'm sure that the majority of Israelis would agree that they wanted peace - however probably not on the terms that you believe that they should accept. Now you can go on and make derogatory comments, "They just sit their itching for Hamas to throw a pot shot couple of rockets at their iron dome so they can steamroll in." without even an attempt to understand why. To me that's worse than sitting on a fence. So, if my droning-on makes you even stop and start to think them I believe I'm making a valuable contribution. As for my view on the poll. I haven't seen it, know nothing about how, when, where and why it was conducted and cannot therefore comment upon its veracity or second guess why the responses were given. That's not fence sitting, it's the mature way of dealing with research claims.
I don't see what arrogance has to do with anything and there's no need to get personal http://www.timesofisrael.com/over-90-of-jewish-israelis-say-gaza-op-justified/ here is the poll and the article. I don't think there is any justification for the severity and indiscriminate nature of Israel's current operation. If you would like to set a case that justifies it then feel free.
It's you who are not listening. I have never tried to justify what Israel does. Neither have I tried to justify what Hamas does. I agree with neither. However, I have tried to understand why both sides may be taking the stances that they do. Note: that is not merely reacting to what they say or feed to the media. Like any sane person I would rather that there was dialogue leading to prolonged peace. However, the true power brokers on both sides are presently more intent on their own agendas than directly dedicating their attention towards peace. Neither side here is totally right or totally wrong. Equally Israel should not be treated as though they are all mindless monsters merely inflicting death and destruction for fun.
Only a sick f** would try justify Israel's oepration, a sick twisted f** with a history knowledge that does not predate 2001. A sick f** that ignores the wise words of people who have been on the ground in Gaza and the West Bank, Israelis who have seen the malnutrition, seen the racism, brutality, murder, for generations. This delusion that this started when Hamas apeared is just that, a self imposed delusion of a person who is mentally ill or brainwashed. IDF twitter trend.. First Israel said it was the teens they went to war over. We know it was not Hamas. Then it was the rockets they went to war over. But they only started after 4 decades of occupation ethnic cleansing and racism. and in this current situation they only started after Israel aggression and murder Now it is the tunnels they go to war over. because this is all that's left as an excuse to carry on even after a ceasefire, as natanyahu has said. Israel using the victim card is just sickening. The lesson of the Holocaust is not That Jews are special It is not that Jews are unique it is not that Jews are eternal victims The lesson of the Holocaust is that when you have the capacity to halt genocide and you do not, no matter who carries out that genocide or who it is directed against, YOU ARE CULPABLE. No one stopped it then and no one is stopping it now, no one stopped it in Rwanda. Every time we let genocide play out, it's because of the self interests of those who can stop it but don't.
I think anyone who just decides Israelis are all blood thirsty child killers is as much of a total ****** as anyone who tries to pin the blame solely on the Palestinians. You have to be really quite stupid to not see that neither side is right in this conflict...
Conflict? Maybe look at the history if it lad, it's ethnic cleansing over 70 years not a conflict. A war has two armies at least, this is not a war.
Seeing as I was out in Israel just last year and spent a lot of time reading up about it, speaking with Israelis about it, seeing a Palestinian kid starting on some Jewish kid in Jerusalem etc etc.... I'd say I have an alright understanding of the situation. To try and blame one side and say they are totally in the wrong and the other side is totally right, is completely ****ing stupid.
Then you should know that when you treat a people like Israel has treated the Palestinians FOR DECADES you will create a Hamas every single f**ing time. You logic is entirely flawed. Go to Gaza not f**ing Israel if you want to see what is happening What do you think about before Hamas started firing rockets in 2001? when Palestinians suffered 4 decades of massacres oppression racism and brutalisation as well as ethnic cleansing? What do you tihnk of allowing in just enough food to stave of a humanitarian crisis? It's pathetic "moderate" reasoning. if you beat a dog for years and it eventually bites you, do you blame the dog? I can't put it any simpler than that, not comparing Palestinians to dogs.
Yeah I wasn't about to create even more trouble for myself by visiting gaza. If your known to have spoken with Palestinians whilst out in Israel you get all sorts of trouble when trying to go back through customs. And I was questioned quite enough already! Jerusalem is very much a mix of different cultures and religions including Palestinians though and gives a good insight to how things have developed the way they have. And how is my logic flawed? Because I'm not so absorbed by my own opinion that I declare one side homicidal maniacs and the others fluffy bunnies? You have to be really quite stupid to not see that there are two sides to this conflict and that neither side is absolved of blame. I mean genuinely stupid.
Oh the moderates are laughable in their logic "it's both sides" Imagine London was surrounded, 500 towns were destroyed, 31 massacres carried out and half the population forced out as refugees, constant land grabs, killing and oppression for decades then an invasion again in in which they occupy London for another few decades. if you lived in that, how far would you go or would you just take it.
That's a terrible analogy that doesn't take into account the vast history and different viewpoints that come into play within the Middle East.
Fair enough mate and that point about talking to Palestinians causing you trouble, is racist, not you, Israel. There is no moderate stance if you look at the entire history, everyone keeps trying to break it down to Hamas IDF, this is 7 decades going, not 1 or 2. Everything Israel has done is illegal by international law, it seems those laws are just not respected unless it is a saddam that breaks them or a Putin, but the US and UK and every other NATO friend can break international law with impunity.
My view is based on more than just the last ten to fifteen years of Hamas. There are a LOT of different factors involved in the situation and it isn't as simple as "Israel where big ****s so now It's ok for Palestine to be ****s"
I just pointed out the historical facts of the situation, not viewpoints, those are the facts mate, if you don't believe me check it out yourself. Imagine owning a farm in Palestine and one day you wake up and Israelis have taken your land and fenced it off, this has been happening for decades. They then build infrastructure between these settlements to prevent a unified Palestinian society, an economy and completely control what gets in and out of Gaza and the West Bank. What people do not often realise is that those tunnels, they bring far more food cooking oil, fuel and medicine than weapons. Israel has put palestinians on a "diet" they measure the calories and population and allow jsut enough in Hell, when a palestinian kid cries when a parent is dragged out of their home, Isaeli officials have said and I quote "Palestinians push their kids to cry, to make a show" This is the kind of dehumanisation, as if a child would not cry in those circumstances.
Just showing how different polls of the same people (obviously its a sample) give different results. the poll I refer to is from 2 weeks ago so would be relevant to this situation. The 96% is incorrect obviously as its a sample of a few 100, few 1000 at most.
