OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

Paxman - no, Brand - probably.

Have to agree with Paxman on this though.....

the person who chooses not to vote - cannot even be bothered to write 'none of the above' on a ballot paper - disqualifies himself from passing any comment at all."

 

Does that not make him a hypocrite, no?

 

Why does dragging yourself to a polling station to spoil your ballot paper give you more rights to comment than staying at home? The end result and the mental process you go through is the same. Paxman isn't as clever as he thinks.

 

I guess he would say that when he's interviewing, he's not passing comment

 

Nail on head.

He occasionally engages bully boy tactics when things aren't going his way, whether that be as interviewer or interviewee. Personally, I've grown tired of his witherings.

Like most people in his postion for so long, his ego has taken control. He certainly isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

 

It's a gesture, I suppose. If you take the trouble to go to the polling station, you are making a tangible statement rather than just not bothering.

I would make it a legal requirement to vote, with 'None Of The Above' being an option.

 

Turning up at the polling station is I believe mandatory in Australia - any comments from that part of the world? As I said above, I'm sure not voting is in the vast majority of cases a 'cant be bothered' decision - why would you want people who can't be bothered, probably haven't thought through the issues, to have an equal say with someone like yourself who has?

 

Forcing people to vote is a totalitarian idea. People have the freedom to vote or not to vote, anything else and its eroding democratic choice.

Whatever they get up to Down Under shouldn't concern us. What a bunch of Crims want to do in their own Country is their business.

 

If they get x million voting for a washed up dancer on a show with Brucie then easily possible Brand could outvote all the parties

 

You are completely entitled to feel that way Stan, but I do sometimes wonder whether the Allies would actually have won the 2nd world war if people had those attitudes towards their Country back then.

I just can't comprehend the notion of "not feeling pride" in being English. Still, each to their own.

 

I'm beginning to warm to you!!

 

Bloody hell!

 

As you pointed out earlier Col, social norms change. I have no doubt I would have volunteered (in ignorance) in the First World War, and been 'happy' to be conscripted (there was no volunteering) for WW2 - there the enemy was really obviously worth fighting. If we were confronted by a similar threat today, I would hope I would contribute to fighting it in any way I could. What I was saying was those achievements aren't mine, so while I can admire them (and I do) I don't take personal pride in them. Likewise, while I regret some of the things we have done as a country in the past (not just to foreigners, sending kids down mines etc comes to mind), I don't feel shame about them. I'm English, have no problem with that, and as you may have spotted I'm a keen student of history too.

Probably not much clearer.

 

A little. I DO take personal pride in the Englishmen (and all the fighting men from these Isles) that gave their lives for me to be free.

Let me frame it another way then....................I wonder if the people of fighting age in this Country would be "up" for fighting a World War in this day and age. Even if there was a genuine threat to our security and ultimately our lives, I do wonder whether there would be enough will to want to fight for the Country? I actually doubt it.

 

We'll never know Col, because we'll never have a massive conventional army again, whatever the threat. If/when we are involved in another war against opposition with similar technology, it will be short, and decidedly not sweet. But on the face of it I share your doubts. The interesting question then is why?

Honest questions - do you also feel pride in the Americans, Aussies, West Indians, Kiwis etc who also died for our freedom? And equally do you feel shame for the things we've got wrong - the Amritsar Massacre for example?

 

I was called odd by Grandad as I never wanted army as all my cousins have ... One just retiring at 40 after three tours. I get my fix of war stories and most of family tell of a ****ty time and then when they have come back to normal life all have struggled as generally people do forget apart from one day a year ... It's not enough

If I hear how the French were cowards then I boil ... I have met many people who did their bit ... Unsung heroes and still blood is shared by brothers of the Maquis are still strong .. They don't forget and respect their struggle ... Still in villages in the south a 75 plate on your car means dig **** on your bonnet ... I should know until my last village knew I was English did it stop

I will always respect the efforts of the soldier but I feel I was right to never respect the powers that send them to War

 

Never got that from my Grandad Dave. He had a Lewis gun blow up in his face in training in 1917. My old man was a conscript in the Korean War, didn't give it rave reviews.

 

He wasn't the only one

 

That's when they tell you who to vote for.