OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

The most savage nation in world history was the *****ls (they killed a very significant proportion of the world population at the time).
Yes we the British Empire, were awful but probably as awful as all the other empires and dictatorships in history.
The past was a very different place.... a place where people were expected to die for their country, a place where you were expected to kill the foe, the enemy (and their women and children).

I do not condone any of this but I do understand why it happened. I am ashamed of what my forefathers did, but I can do nothing myself EXCEPT prevent it happening again, today.
I therefore will not cut myself up about it (and about being a Celt...the most savage nation in history, perhaps not)

But I will do my best to fight death slavery and destruction today......but where do you start. I marched against the Blair war, because it was morally wrong.
But where do I stand in the Syrian war...not so easy...and the killing of Al-Quaida operatives, a much harder situation

History and retrospective sight is an easy thing to utilise.
End of rant! Back to Everton v Spurs

 

Just started work ( on a Sunday afternoon ) so can't answer fully but in the short....
YES, we are a nation to be proud of, and I'm proud to be English. Of course we aren't perfect, and we've done a lot of bad things but the same can be said for ANY nation.

 

If you look at culture, sport, literature, music, art and so on, there's plenty to be proud of in terms of being England/British.

The Romans butchered their way through Europe and the Mediterranean but they have also given us a tremendously important cultural heritage.

There needs to be balance in how we understand and conceptualise these things.

 

Very interesting post Uber, you've covered a lot of the assumptions as to why we are seeing much more obesity. Aside from those genetically and medically inclined towards obesity I think the bottom line in this is self-control in adults and poor parenting in children, the two often go together and, in many cases, 'social class' may be a significant factor.

Too often parents opt for the easy option when giving their children meals, so many children refuse to eat the healthy option and parents give in to them for an easy life. I've lost count of the number of times when I've eaten out and seen children on tables nearby steaming into piles of burgers, nuggets and fries and drinking massive amounts of cola, never a more healthy option.

I worked in a school for many years and the cook told me how the menus were for many years geared to speedy service rather than what was good for children and any healthy items on the menu were often thrown out with the leftovers because the children wouldn't eat them. The Jamie Oliver experiment appears to have failed as many schools also find the children refuse to select the healthy option.

Lifestyle can contribute to the problem as well. Since I was made redundant last year I have been working as a driver and so lack of exercise and meals snatched on the hoof saw me put on over a stone. In the evenings after a long day both myself and my good lady don't fancy spending time cooking so convenience meals are the usual, but again, we now choose mainly light low calorie meals and now have fruit desserts rather than puddings etc. We have both shed over half a stone in the past six weeks we have followed a diet of eating less rather than focussing too much on what we eat. In the end it's self-control that gets results, sadly, many people can't see it through and it's only when illness forces change that they try.

We are heading the same way as the USA, I remember being in one of those 'all-you-can-eat-for $5.99' places in Florida and seeing families feasting on as much as they could fit in. One lady had her four kids with her, she must have been 25 stone, there was more of her hanging over the sides of the moulded plastic seat than was in it, her four kids were like mini-me's, their plates were piled high as we came in and they were still shovelling it down them as we left.

I really don't know the solution Uber, if people just won't change they are heading for an early grave and we will foot the medical costs. Refusing to treat the obese? That would be an ethical nightmare...

 

Very good post Sooper.

I can personally relate to many of the things you talk about. I gave up smoking 12 years ago and piled on the pounds. Two years ago, I was 18.5 stone or 119 kilos for those used to kilos. My body mass index was 38 (anything over 30 is considered obese). I was then diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. The diagnoses and a stern talk from my GP shocked me into taking action. I cut out all the rubbish like cakes and biscuits. I reduced my alcohol intake considerably.

Now, I am 13.5 stone or five stone lighter (119 kilos to 87 kilos=32 kilos less). My waist size dropped from 42 inches to 36 inches. I take a bit of exercise by walking and I only really drink when I go over for matches. I will also have a burger and chips in the pub which I normally wouldn't have when I'm at home. My body mass index is down to 29 which is overweight but below what's considered obese. I eat a lot of fruit and wouldn't touch a pudding, ever.

I think sugary soft drinks like coke, orange etc should be banned. Educating young people is key to solving the obesity problem.

 

Sorry mate, my comment wasn't meant to be judgmental. I think you make an important distinction between 'can't' and 'won't'. It's one we've struggled with since the poor Laws of 1601, if not before - how do we distinguish between the deserving and the underserving - of sympathy, support etc etc? And you are right I probably share your stance overall. there are certainly people I would like to ask "How come you contribute absolutely nothing, to anyone, ever? Yet you feel you deserve everyone else contributing to you?" Then walk away before the list of excuses and hard luck stories starts vomiting out.

 

A very good post, Soops. I always look out for your contributions, which are always dispassionate and rational pieces.

Your mention of Jamie Oliver is apt. I recall footage of mothers passing convenience food through the playground fences to their little darlings, deprived as they were of such things by the substitution for more nutritious meals.

Mrs Uber likes to go get her nails done in town every couple of weeks (don't ask) and will 'treat' herself to a coffee and an egg McMuffin when she's there. She is as skinny as a rake - partly because of a touch of IBS - but tells me that it doesn't matter which day she has her appointment, she will see the same pair of young teenage mothers breakfasting together at McDonalds with their very young brood. She thinks they probably share around 35 stones between them and has the impression that they breakfast there daily.

I think it's sad. There seems to be very much an 'education thing' at play here. One gets the sense of ill-educated teenage girls, leaving school ill-equipped for much other than to jump straight into motherhood, possibly with the promise of a state-funded flat.

[For those that think I'm making sweeping generalisations, please note the deliberate use of "I think", "there seems", "One gets the sense" and "possibly". There are always examples of young, often poorly educated young girls that work hard and excel at creating the right environment for themselves and their children; I fear, however, that they may be in the minority.]

The amount of food waste is also a significant issue. When there are people starving in the world, as well as people in food poverty in our own country, it really is appalling that others can afford to waste the amount of food that they do.

 

Uber, did you see the Docu on fast food that Stan posted up a while back?

 

Good stuff, Fingals. Your weight loss experience has been similar to mine. Even though I like go for runs (although a bad back has stopped this for the past week) there are other little things that can be done that add up. As you have done, walking is a great way to take exercise and, if you have young kids, also a great way for them to get fresh air, explore nature and the world around them. I got bored at HT with the Everton/Spurs game so donned my wellies and took Little Miss Uber out for a walk in the fields and a splash about in a brook. Priceless stuff.

I always like to use the stairs rather than the lift and, if I have to go the superstores, will always park somewhere around the perimeter of their car park, rather than right by their doors. Not only do I get some exercise, I also reduce the chance that some dickhead will open his car door into mine.

 

No, have you got a link please, Trav?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHgsJrfThgM

 

Would you take a point Vs Reading? I would. We've then got the international break to get some players fit, and I fully expect the Madejski to be a fortress come the 2nd half of the season.

 

No, lets go for all three. If Sheffield Wednesday can beat them by scoring five, I am sure we can beat them too.

 

Na mate. Its gotta be all 3 against those Pretenders.

 

Cheers, will take a gander.

 

I think the negatives of a loss are greater than the positives of a win, so a draw is a safe option. Reading's confidence is shattered, beating "Moneybags
QPR" prior to the break would be gold dust for them- and 2 weeks to ponder a loss would be terrible for us. Keeping a promotion rival in the doldrums whilst gaining one of the tougher away points would be decent.

Saw this on one of their forums though:

"We seem to have lost that resilience we had in the McD years which I think is needed for the long slog in the championship. Yes it's great to play some more attractive football but only if the players are up for the job. The back four look utterly terrified every time they have the ball and need to pick a pass"

They're trying to pass it out from the back with donkeys under Adkins. Press them high + we could take all three

This is nice to see too: "Left back is a real problem with Bridge being made of paper, Baird's performances have really dropped off,"

 

Reading are unbeaten in 7 games at home too- and the last loss was in May V Man City

 

Shall we remove the "OT" now that we're talking about the Reading game?

 

Aah, Jonathan Meades. Pretentious as hell, still great entertainment. I think its the aesthetic of fast food that upsets him rather than its health impact.

 

Good points which I agree with