OT - Über's Open Debate Thread

I will look at it of course Col on a train at mo... Like I said I focus on the sad loss of life in the towers more myself

The key fact about the towers is the third building demolished controlled within 48 hours ... It would of taken 3 months to set the charges experts believe

One little snippet is that directly after the attacks that will blow a lot out of the water is the fact that passports or IDs were shown about the pilots or terrorists ... They were all known within a week from all the sites it featured on every news channel

The passports IDs etc were all found or taken from recorded check points that weren't even in place at the time and matched against vapourised bodies

No blood at all was found at the crash site of flight 73 from the have a go passengers ... It crash landed in soft mud and trees ... All bodies were again vapourised

The thing will never add up for me mate

 

Cheers, Kiwi.

Does anybody know whether cautions are included in the crime figures or not? I suppose they would be picked up in the BCS if the victim was one of the 'lucky' 5,000 to have been approached that year...

 

Naughty, Uber - the survey is 50,000, which is a big sample in statistical terms. Opinion polls are based on samples of 1 or 2 thousand. I'm also curious to know whether crimes that result in a caution are included in police crime figures.

 

One interesting thing that my brainpower won't let me fully understand is how the SNP can campaign for an independent Scotland yet wish to forge the same (if not greater) ties with Yerp. It doesn't make sense to me, at the rawest, most fundamental level, that Salmond - as wily and astute a politician as any currently on the UK stage - can strive for Scottish self-determination on the one hand, yet wish to remain a member of a body that is increasingly eroding the sovereign independence of its member states on the other.

Given that the SNP believe they'll get their hands on still significant North Sea oil & gas revenues, perhaps the Norwegian model would be better suited to them?

The more cynical amongst us may be forgiven for thinking that Mr Salmond, like all good politicians, wants to have his cake and eat it.

Moving on slightly... Since UK devolution, Wales has seen tremendous investment particularly into redevelopment of Cardiff and Swansea. There continues to be substantial pots of money available to rejuvenate businesses via Welsh Development Authority grants or Finance Wales loans; the likes of which are not available to businesses in England. Where has all this money come from? The EU? UK taxpayers? Most probably a mix of the two, but I would not be completely surprised to find that a substantial proportion comes from the latter, given that devolution was a great New Labour initiative which could not be seen to fail at any cost.

 

I read somewhere lately that 27% of scots wanted independence
and 39% of the English wanted them to have it

 

163660 of ems a big number to hide from the bean counters
would look good in the police clear up rates though

 

That would suggest that it was in the interests of the police to include these in crime statistics.

 

My apologies, Strolls... an unintentional omission of a zero!


I've just had a quick (and crude) look at the UK population, which is approximately 63.7 million. If you deduct the populations of Scotland (5.3 million) and Northern Ireland (1.8 million) you get an estimated population for England and Wales of 56.6 million.

Figures for the full UK population suggests that roughly 25% are aged 15 or under, so if you assume 75% of the 56.6 million are 16 years or older (I believe that this is the population for the BCS?) you get approximately 42.5 million people.

So, sample of 50,000 people is a mere 0.12% of the overall population.


I did a bit of buggering about with a 'sample size' calculator that invited you to set a confidence level and confidence interval which suggests that a sample of 50,000 was more that sufficient, so I suppose that I should bow to the superior minds of the statisticians. A mere 0.12 of 1% does seem enormously low to me, though!

As Mark Twain (and others) might have said, "lies, damn lies and statistics, eh?

 

Ah, now you're inferring a little sympathy with my cynical position!

 

There are an estimated 7 million people living here illegally also

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...myths-pentagon

Col mate seriously... that to me is not in anyway a creditable piece of evidence ... Right from the start it shows a massive hole which was NOT due to the original damage it is enlarged by other forces i.e: demolition?


The caption:

HQ Attack: Taken three days after 9/11, this photo shows the extent of the damage to the Pentagon, consistent with a fiery plane crash. (Photograph by Department of Defense)

The words Vapourised were used all over the bloody world for years

You would need a lot more intelligent material to turn my head on this ... It is bullshit the Pentagon outside walls did NOT collapse 20 mins after impact .... I should know I was watching it as was most of the world. I ask anyone of this board to confirm that the walls collapsed and put money on it ... that did not happen

I have moved on from what is a bloody world wide crime IMO

I respect your views to believe exactly what you want to

 

I don't think it will come anywhere near 27% personally. The Scottish people know that breaking up the Union would be madness. Its worked so well for so long, they won't break it up now.

As for the 39% English figure, there seems to be a growing resentment among some English people because Scotland, Wales and NI with their devolved administrations can make their own decisions on the one hand but take money out of the UK exchequer (most of which is English funded) on the other; something the English can't do because they don't have their own Parliament. The Union seems to have gone a bit lopsided towards the three little members in recent years so naturally some English folk have picked up on that.

Having said all that, I doubt 39% would be a real figure either, given a vote.

 

When you have an organisation like the CIA in America, things for me will never add up.
I haven't read this whole fascinating thread (Thanks Über) so this might of been mentioned before but the CIA do have a history of coming up with 'False Flag' operations.
In the 60's during the Cuban Crisis, the possibility of false terrorist attacks on targets in the US , including hijacking and crashing planes, was muted by the CIA ( but at the time rejected).
Operation NORTHWOODS makes fascinating reading.

 

London's tax take supports the rest of the UK, just like Germany supports the rest of the EU. It infuriates me that Wales and Scotland spend significantly more per head on the NHS than England, yet their health outcomes are much worse.

If you don't reckon 50,000 is a decent sample size, don't take any prescription drugs - clinical trials are on far smaller numbers than that.......

Not meaning to be abrupt, actually in a work meeting.....

 

Prescription drugs... now there's a fascinating topic. I think most of us are extremely fortunate that by the time we may have need for prescription drugs, not only have they undertaken these clinical trials, but they have also been prescribed to many people over a good many years, significantly reducing the risk to us personally.

I'm sure that if my life (or quality of life) was threatened by illness only treatable by a new drug, I might be persuaded to be an 'early adopter'.

There's another potential branch to this thread (perhaps 'strand' would be a better term) discussing clinical trials and how the major drug companies stand accused of manipulating the results in their favour. That, of course, is the funny thing about statistics; they can be made to pretty much support any conclusion you're seeking.

 

Yes, it is clear that the London tax revenues support other UK regions; stands to reason, really.

Theodore Dalrymple - I'm not sure if you're familiar with him; the alias of a much-travelled doctor and writer who spent many years working in deprived and desperate areas, clinically studying the people and the evidence in front of his nose before arriving at conclusions? - has written fascinating essays on the health problems of the poorer sections of society, both here and abroad. One interesting observation about the UK is how the poorer people these days seem to be getting fatter where once (say back in Victorian times) they were extremely thin. There are naturally adverse health consequences of poor diet, lack of exercise, drug and alcohol abuse, obesity and no doubt other factors. It is all too easy to blame the junk food industry for its prevalence in the poorer areas, but Dalymple has observed how it is primarily education that is at the root of the problem, and the free market is simply reacting to freedom of (poor) choice.

Whilst all this mumbo jumbo (to ignorant folk such as I) about statistical samples is all well and good, I would advise caution before considering a similar sample size to be reasonable for the extrapolation of data gathered for crime experience and the clinical trials of a new drug. It is remaining sceptical and hard to convince that keeps us moving forward.

 

Agree !00% its factual about the Cuban stuff ... where there's a will there's a way ... In fact why even think this stuff up in the first place? Look how much money was made by the Bush administration by the Invasion of Iraq ... Look up the names of the people who are involved in the pipeline business: Cheney & Halliburton

Desert Storm being controlled by a man who has massive commercial interests in the area .. you couldn't made that **** up while the rest of Joe America and the world are still picking up the Tab ... who got rich?

Iraq War Profiteers: Low estimates suggest a minimum of 87Bn but they suggest it could be as high as 600Bn! plus

Halliburton
Veritas Capital Fund/DynCorp
Washington Group International
Environmental Chemical
Aegis
International American Products
Erinys
Fluor
Perini

And we talking about a bunch of Zulu extras that starred in a feature film for entertainment which had a budget 3.5m then and had little historical substance to the real event

 

As with all the bollocks (your term) we all talk on this board, such as the merits of the Zulu film (to which you contributed your extremely funny pastiche about 'Bogdani' getting some grape in his wedding tackle), you are completely at liberty to ignore it, Dave.

This has become an Open Debate thread so I congratulate you for introducing the subject of the Iraq War profiteers. Might I suggest we add one Anthony Blair to the list somewhere?

 

The link I have given you addresses all your misgivings mate, including the collapse of the third building. I guess it's just then a matter of who/what you believe. I admit that your prompting got me asking questions, although, having researched it more I now feel at ease with the official explanations. I'm sure, however, that the security services have covered up some stuff to save their embarrassment though.

 

That's all a bit too paranoid for me Dave..........but each to their own mate.

Princess Diana? Murdered? Accident?