Just because I had soup for lunch and it wasn't very good - BOLLOCKS!!! We didn't have our act together in the 1st half. We were not mugged by Newcastle. The problem lay solely with us. Our performance was like badly setup F1 car. Everything was there but the last 5-10% of performance was missing. Now I've already said my piece about why I believe that was. BUT It was not the formation that was the problem it was the personnel and what they were tasked to do.
I think that's harsh on Newcastle tbh. They out fought you in the centre of the pitch & were well set up tactically by Pardew, & they largely nullified you as an attacking force.
The stats don't support that contention Tobes. Throughout the match they played counter attack and fell back on top of their back 4. There was little midfield fight from Newcastle. In the first half our attacks were constructed too slowly when faced with a 'packed' defence. This compounded our sloppiness when delivering the final ball.
Sorry Dave but I disagree. We weren't in the game until the penalty incident. Granted, we were sloppy and wasteful and that was caused by our doings but also due to the opposition being simply more up for it.
I agree, but for all their fight, Dave is right in that it was OUR fault that we couldn't win playing a team of ten men for 50 minutes with the scores level. How did you feel losing that derby a few years back when Kyro was sent off by Atkinson after half an hour for letting Fellatio stamp on him? Sure, praise for our fighting and organisational skills, but ****ing fury too, as I remember, for Moyes' inability to take advantage of the opportunity. What's making me fume more is Brendan came out yesterday with that "It's harder to play ten men" routine, as Moyes did after that derby. **** off - why don't we field a team of ten men each week then? How about REALLY screwing the opposition up by sending out nine men and gradually taking the rest of the team off at ten minute intervals?
Maybe for the complete game, but pre the sending off, they spent most of the opening half on the front foot & they were consistently out gunning you in the central midfield area. You even made that yard dog Sissoko look half decent.... After the penalty, then yes, they were sitting deep & restricted to the odd counter, but they were the better side by a stretch in the opening 40 minutes
Dave was suggesting that even the first half was somehow down to your failings as opposed to the Geordies simply playing well, which I think is unfair on them, as they set up well & worked damned hard. Once they went to 10, yeah I totally agree, you should have won the game & you would have done had you not defended a set piece like school boys tbf. I think your system doesn't work without Coutinho pulling the strings in the No.10 position, without him you're largely reliant on your 2 strikers generating something between them.
Reminds me, remember when England played Brazil in the WC quarter final in 2002, and Ronaldhino was sent off? And they WERE the better team with ten men?
I agree and it will be a mistake to use that formation against WBA we need to go back to 4-3-3. Looking ahead I would like us to go back to a back 5 against Arsenal at the Emirates.
It's always points dropped for me unless we get all three. I'm not daft enough to expect us to win every game throughout a season, but before each individual game I'm always optimistic we're going to win this one. As to whether it's down to us playing badly or them playing well, it's obviously a combination of the two.
The problem with playing 3 CB's & wing backs, is that if the opposition (like Newcastle on Sat) play with 3 up top & get the 2 wide attacking forwards to stay out wide & hug the touchline, then your 2 wing backs have to cover them & you've therefore lost the width in your side.
Yes and that is where we went wrong, when I've played this formation it depends so much on those wing backs pushing forward that the whole system is useless if they get pinned back one of the basics I was taught as a center back is that 2 marking 1 is fine 3 marking 1 doesn't work and we just didn't adjust to their tactics. There are loads of ways to adjust within that formation but we just didn't adapt at all.
I truly believe that, in the first half, we had lots of opportunities that we (not because of the Newcastle misfield or back 4) did not make the most of because the pass was either delayed or not accurate enough. I'm not trying to decry their effort as it was an open game. Rather I am saying that we were our own worst enemies. I also think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about our No10.
Are you saying they play with five up or three, with two of them wide? In the first scenario that SHOULD give you control of midfield. In the second, that SHOULD release a centre-back to release the DM midfielder, etc. Should is big word though, and the manager SHOULDN'T have to tell players of adapt to the events on the field.
They were basically playing without a CF as Ben Arfa was dropping off, so most of the time it was 3 marking no-one, but with your wing backs contained, as both wide players had plenty of pace. It was quite clever by Pardew tbf, as the natural pick would have seen Remy in the central role, with Ben Arfa on the left, but he wouldn't have posed the same threat, as he has no real pace, so Johnson could have bombed on with more confidence.
That's one way to deal with it... alternatively you can call it 4-5-1 and just dominate the midfield. leave one up against 3 men and put 3 in the middle... like utd drop rooney off into midfield. In any event yes, push the full backs back and then take over midfield and laugh at liveprools inept midfield duo scurrying about trying to cope while moses plays blinds mans bluff in the middle. 3-5-2 is very easy to counter. 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 does it... the thing about 3-5-2 is that it is inflexible unless you can pull one of those cbs into a midfield role... so far we've not really tried that. toure has tried to make an extra body at times. all the strength is at the back... not pressing abiltiy, no width, no overlapping... Its a disaster and i've been saying it since the start of it.
it was great itl they f'd up with the sending off... even then rodgers didn't learn and left it as was. he sent on alberto then for sahko only hafter he limped a little. he wasn't great.
I don't think it's inflexible but neither is any formation as long as the manger explains what he wants as the game changes.
Definitely 2 dropped and yes it was a draw I couldn't argue against. Ultimately we shot ourselves in the foot by failing to get the second before they did. Had we gone 2-1 up Newcastle would have had to come out a bit and I think we would have strolled it. Credit to them but poor from us. Not all doom and gloom though. Let's see how the players react at the weekend.
Rodgers saying we need to be better at set pieces if we want CL..... Have we not been bad at that for a long while now???
