Off Topic OLOF's political thread

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Eric Le Merde said:
LL, Chesh. I haven't read the treaty and I don't need to know what it is about but was this a treaty that was entered into by the democratically elected government of the UK?
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The Lisbon Treaty, as far as I'm aware affects the EU and all its member states.

While the UK signed to participate in the Lisbon Treaty, along with all other EU member states. The UK successfully negotiated certain options to opt out and/or veto any certain EU regulations and laws.

Example would be, the EU cannot take control of our Armed Forces or our Nuclear arsenal / resources, even though the writer mentions there's no mention of Nuclear resources. Our Nuclear Armaments / resources belong to the MOD, and only the sitting PM can give the order to fire.........We all know they want our Nuclear resources / Armaments, and I'm sure in time, if we stayed in EU, they would try to work a way around to getting their hands on all our Military and Armaments.

If anyone's interested in what the UK can veto, and when they can enact the opt out clauses, it makes for an interesting read.

The writer / Lisbon Treaty explains, in a roundabout way, number by number that the EU does not have complete control over the UK.........which really pisses them off.

"The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement that amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009."

"The Lisbon Treaty amends the existing Treaties in order to make the necessary changes to allow an enlarged EU with 27 Member States to work more effectively. ... The aim of this briefing is to give a brief overview of some of the main changes introduced by the Treaty.Nov 4, 2009"
 
LeedsLover said:
The Lisbon Treaty, as far as I'm aware affects the EU and all its member states.

While the UK signed to participate in the Lisbon Treaty, along with all other EU member states. The UK successfully negotiated certain options to opt out and/or veto any certain EU regulations and laws.

Example would be, the EU cannot take control of our Armed Forces or our Nuclear arsenal / resources, even though the writer mentions there's no mention of Nuclear resources. Our Nuclear Armaments / resources belong to the MOD, and only the sitting PM can give the order to fire.........We all know they want our Nuclear resources / Armaments, and I'm sure in time, if we stayed in EU, they would try to work a way around to getting their hands on all our Military and Armaments.

If anyone's interested in what the UK can veto, and when they can enact the opt out clauses, it makes for an interesting read.

The writer / Lisbon Treaty explains, in a roundabout way, number by number that the EU does not have complete control over the UK.........which really pisses them off.

"The Treaty of Lisbon (initially known as the Reform Treaty) is an international agreement that amends the two treaties which form the constitutional basis of the European Union (EU). The Treaty of Lisbon was signed by the EU member states on 13 December 2007, and entered into force on 1 December 2009."

"The Lisbon Treaty amends the existing Treaties in order to make the necessary changes to allow an enlarged EU with 27 Member States to work more effectively. ... The aim of this briefing is to give a brief overview of some of the main changes introduced by the Treaty.Nov 4, 2009"
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So was it signed by the democratically elected government of the UK?
 
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LeedsLover said:
Well, there's no point me, or anyone else answering if you're not going to take the time to read the links, or the copied text on full view.
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OK so it was signed by the British Government, Ratified by the House of Commons. Passed by the House of Lords and given Royal Assent. Seems pretty much like it was agreed to then by all legislative bodies in the UK.
 
Whitejock said:
Why should we? You clearly haven't! <laugh>

Yet another scaremongering story with all the classic Chesh hallmarks. No substance, no specifics, no links, no references, and basically, well, nothing! Absolutely bloody nothing. Again. <doh>

I'll tell you why you can't 'do' links on your phone - it's because there are none for your Jackanory sessions! Even the dimmest on here would realise that if they had a genuine issue with providing links, they could at least provide specific references to the point they're making. Like 'section 2 (c), subsection (d), bullets 2.2.1.1-5, 2.4.1.26 etc. etc. Like they've done in books for centuries! Have a look sometime. :shocked:

Unable to provide links, my arse! <laugh>
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We ? I wasn't talking to you.No point telling you look at anything,your blinkers don't let you see anything anyway.
 
Eric Le Merde said:
LL, Chesh. I haven't read the treaty and I don't need to know what it is about but was this a treaty that was entered into by the democratically elected government of the UK?
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By a democratically elected government,the government has changed since then many times,and they never agreed to any of the rule changes.In fact the only democratic vote by any peoples since then voted that they don't want it.

In fact the ROI were the only country to have a democratic referendum on it,and rejected it,but were made to vote again until they agreed.
 
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2020VisionofLeeds said:
Now you’ve done it.

If Chesh’s head explodes it will be your fault.
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I deliberately posted a nice, matter of fact link. I avoided posting one from the guardian that said the old and uneducated were particularly susceptible to believing fake news, as it is never my wish to cause offence, head explosions or anything of the sort.<laugh><laugh><laugh>
 
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lifecheshirewhite said:
By a democratically elected government,the government has changed since then many times,and they never agreed to any of the rule changes.In fact the only democratic vote by any peoples since then voted that they don't want it.
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You seem to be implying that governments change and people’s opinions change, and you shouldn’t be tied to past decisions from previous regimes. Sounds like a resounding case for a second referendum then Chesh<whistle>

Especially as the last democratic vote in this country was the 2017 election where the Tories got 42% of the vote in a 69% turnout and had to form a minority government.

Had they won sufficient votes, they would have had a majority and you would have had brexit by now. <whistle><whistle>
 
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milkyboy said:
You seem to be implying that governments change and people’s opinions change, and you shouldn’t be tied to past decisions from previous regimes. Sounds like a resounding case for a second referendum then Chesh<whistle>

Especially as the last democratic vote in this country was the 2017 election where the Tories got 42% of the vote in a 69% turnout and had to form a minority government.

Had they won sufficient votes, they would have had a majority and you would have had brexit by now. <whistle><whistle>
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4 or 5 years after Brexit if it's wanted by the public there should be another vote,but we haven't enacted the first one yet <doh> <doh> <doh>.
Well over 200 labour mp passed Brexit into law,then decided to make it into a change the government battle,nothing to do with brexit.

And stupid Jock party think the EU referendum was about scotish independence,and for the second time refuse to listen to the voters.
NO DEMOCRACY HERE MOVE ALONG.
 
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I understand chesh... Your Tory PM called an election to strengthen her brexit negotiating hand... but sadly the public didn’t back her and ended up weakening it. Democracy eh!

For what it’s worth, i think the brexit referendum was a stupid, politically motivated idea, that got out of hand, people were flat out lied to by politicians who were thinking of their careers and not their country. It was ill-thought out and ill-conceived.

However, leave won, by the rules of the game (advisory or not) the country should have delivered a brexit of some kind. Even if that meant another vote to change our minds a few years later!
 
milkyboy said:
I understand chesh... Your Tory PM called an election to strengthen her brexit negotiating hand... but sadly the public didn’t back her and ended up weakening it. Democracy eh!

For what it’s worth, i think the brexit referendum was a stupid, politically motivated idea, that got out of hand, people were flat out lied to by politicians who were thinking of their careers and not their country. It was ill-thought out and ill-conceived.

However, leave won, by the rules of the game (advisory or not) the country should have delivered a brexit of some kind. Even if that meant another vote to change our minds a few years later!
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The Labour leader being the only leader who voted to leave,put it in the party manifesto,the party's which promised to leave won 600 seats in the last election.
They lied to the public and made it an anti government debate,for which this country will probably see people die as a result.
 
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