Not rubbish at all. It’s how our system works That’s exactly why our version of democracy is totally out of date and not fit for purpose You might not like it, I certainly don’t, but that’s what we’ve got
We voted to leave end of. Forget about a deal we were never going to get a deal as long as the EU thought there was any chance of a reversal of our referendum result, which they still hold to. Unfortunately our so called MP's who are suppose to be there to carry out the people's wishes are too busy playing school yard politics. To answer a point raised earlier by the yellow bird I voted for a Brexit with the full knowledge that negotiations on any deal would take place as soon as the EU fully got the message that we were leaving. There is a lot of MP's of all colours who are going to get a very rude awakening come the next general election, and I can just hear the moans on why the turnout is so low. As you sow so shall you reap. And grim reaper is watching you.
I agree MPs are being pathetic but actually they are not appointed to carry out people’s wishes it’s exactly the point we discussed above about the massive flaws with our system MPs are not elected to follow wishes under our system, they are elected to represent as they see fit (I.e. they can ignore the people’s wishes completely, but that will likely mean they have trouble getting re-elected) the system is out-of-date, unreformed and massively flawed, but that’s what we’re currently stuck with
I’d like to see proportional representation as the main change, so that at least parties are represented by their actual vote share The upper chamber (I.e. House of Lords) should stop being unelected and should have direct elections, as well as greater powers of oversight and legislative powers (the executive should be split from the legislature - so government should not be forming law and parliament should not be governing). If people are wedded to first past the post, then the upper chamber could be elected by that system It could even be helpful to have a totally separate government outside of Parliament, like the system used in most other countries If there is enough support for referendums, then there should a law that makes referendums legally binding (currently that is impossible so this would need to be a constitutional matter) This are just some starter suggestions. Not hard to improve though, given our current undemocratic system
I've given it a like because I have a feeling for proportional representation, but I also see problems ie nothing will ever get done, a bit like today's parliament.
Wrong, dbc, they're debating how they can stay in and appear to be debating how to leave. Get it right!
Yeah that’s why you might want to separate out Government to ensure something happens The other compromise is to have the upper chamber proportional representation, but they would need a lot more power
The argument for first past the post has always been that the British public like strong leadership and that PR inevitably means coalitions. We had a chance to change our electoral system a few years ago... to a single transferable vote system. But no one cared enough to turn out to vote In that referendum. That was when we were disenfranchised and carefree. Now everyone is an empassioned political expert. The idea of more referenda and delegates is unworkable as a practicality, that’s why you have representatives to make decisions on your behalf. Archaic it may be but there is a logic to it. Problem is, very few people care who their mp is and vote for a party not an individual. Inevitably that party is run my power seeking, self interest driven cretins. Welcome to democracy. As Wolfe smith once said, ‘power to the people’
I don’t disagree that the system has strengths and can work milky. The problem is that at the moment it’s not what people want and it’s not working - if it’s not what people want then it’s not democratic and if it’s not working then the strengths are pointless. People believed that the referendum was a democratic exercise (even though it was actually advisory) and Parliament has made a mockery of that belief. That means it is no longer democratic.
I don’t necessarily disagree rob, just pointing out there are practical flaws in the alternatives. Some would argue that a sensible democracy doesn’t always give the people what they want... because the representatives are meant to understand the issues better than those they represent. If you look at the reasons why people voted as they did. Most remainers picked the economy as the main reason for wanting to remain. The main reason given by leavers for wanting to leave was to give back decision making to the British government. On that basis leavers have a point about deal or no deal doesn’t matter to them, it wasn’t about the economy for them... they just wanted to have our government making decisions about our futures. Quite ironic really that, the government, acting independently, is seemingly taking the decision to not allow a no deal scenario because of economic concerns. People: ‘We want you the British government to make decisions’. Government: ‘Great, thanks for your support, and with the power invested in us we will honour the will of the people by making a decision on our own. That decision is to stay in Europe.’ Be careful what you wish for as they say
[QUOTE="milkyboy, postc concerns. People: ‘We want you the British government to make decisions’. Government: ‘Great, thanks for your support, and with the power invested in us we will honour the will of the people by making a decision on our own. That decision is to stay in Europe.’ Be careful what you wish for as they say[/QUOTE] But those decisions must be to the benefit of the people, not to the benefit of MPs
What a load of rubbish,we wanted the government to make the decisions,not the fringe looney party's SNP,Labour etc the government have voted out every time and for agreements.
Part of the reason I voted Brexit was for accountability, you’re changing that word for decision making.
Wouldn't it be nice if Her Majesty was to make a stand for her people. I know, I know, legalities and ll that, but she is still, after all, your Queen, even in Yorkshire. (WJ, Eire, OLOF and Ringo excepted)
Governments are accountable in general elections. When in power they make decisions on things and pass laws on them. The survey I was referring to actually referred to the ability of Britain to make its own laws. The irony I referred to was, what if the law they made was to give up some of their law making ability... if they think that’s the best decision for the country.
Well Brexit or Remain it’s a shambles and I don’t see how anyone could vote Labour or Conservative at the next election. Brexit voters have been betrayed by the politicians and Teresa Mays quote of “no deal is better than a bad deal” is a joke because if she believes her deal is a good one we have no hope. Corbyn votes everything the opposite and he wants to be as awkward as possible because his only aim is to force another election, he is desperate beyond belief. Actually he reminds me of remoaners, he lost the last election not long ago but wants another as he wasn’t happy with the way the vote went. May started this fiasco by calling for a general election not realising the only reason the conservatives got in without the need of a coalition was because Cameron had promised a vote on Europe. I see May and Corbyn through the same pair of specs, neither have the strength to lead this country, both are a disgrace.
