Oh why are we so ****?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Special Patrol Group, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Special Patrol Group

    Special Patrol Group Self-Partnered

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    If it carries on into next season, ask Leeds, Sunderland, and Villa where the bottom of that bottoming out can be.
     
    #61
  2. saintKlopp

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    I think I'm ever-so-slightly more optimistic than you. :)
     
    #62
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  3. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Until we get pacy CBs back into the team and Fab in midfield, this 433 simply won't work. It's a flawed system which cannot succeed unless all 11 part are functioning.

    Switch to a 4231 or 442 and we will see improvements.
     
    #63
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  4. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Club World Champions. Boom!
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    Gomez was available for some of those nine games so we still had pace at the back. It would have taken the opposition a few games to work out how to exploit or new found weakness too.

    Seems daft to say now because our right side is so blatantly open to attack after being gang raped for the last couple of months <laugh>
     
    #64
  5. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Club World Champions. Boom!
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    Need to tighten up the FB areas, stop the ball going over the top into that space. Without pace at the back, the only option is to drop deeper. This will make it harder to score because we'll be starting from deeper.

    We could ask both FBs to stay back, but then where does the creativity come from? Maybe play Trent in midfield but Neco isn't exactly pulling up trees.

    Play counter attacking football? Do we have the defence to do it? How do we make teams attack when we still have Salah and Mane (form is temporary) waiting to counter?

    Three at the back? We're already short of CBs!

    I really don't know the answer. The only thing I truly believe is Fabinho needs to ve at DM.
     
    #65
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  6. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    This is the thing. Klopp is still trying to play the high line with a slow back line lol. He's still trying to play a high pressing game without the necessary support in midfield to back the front 3. This creates gaps in between defence, midfield and attack - easy for teams to play around us, and it makes it difficult for us to attack as a unit. Which could explain the Mane and Bobby underperforming massively.

    Personally, I think he needs to drop the back line a few yards. Allow Robbo to push forward but keep Trent deeper - he has the passing range to dictate games from deep without having to fly forward. Then you have Fabinho and Thiago holding, with one AM in front (either Keita / Jones / Shaq / or even Bobby).

    Then you play Jota on the left, Mane on the right and Mo central.

    In terms of build up play, we used to bypass midfield by pinging long accurate balls to full backs. VVD, Gomez and Matip were experts at this. Trent also is great at this. Without those CBs, everything gets funnelled through Trent which then becomes predictable and easy to defend against. Phillips, Kabak and Rhys are not ball playing centre backs so we need Fab and Thiago to get the ball off them. It's time to start building play in central positions rather than the usual pass out wide to Trent and hoof the ball over the top. We literally have two of the best central midfielders in the world to do this.
     
    #66
  7. Special Patrol Group

    Special Patrol Group Self-Partnered

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    Even 4-5-1. I'm inclined to play Nico at RB, Trent at RWB alongside Fab, Windy, Jones and Mane in midfield, with Mo up top on his own.
     
    #67
  8. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Its clearly a lack of goals not defensive issues so we need to absolutely kick the living **** out of firmino and mane until they decide to bother their holes again
     
    #68
  9. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

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    Since that Palace game, where Mane got hooked after 2 goals, he's looked like he can't be arsed.
    Does he feel that he's not loved or that Salah is the favourite?

    Bobby's goals have always been inconsistent
     
    #69
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  10. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Manes role is to press but also secure the left side.

    The full backs are also sitting back minding themselves so until.something changes in attitude this **** will continue.

    If mane runs about and tries things happen but same for firmino.
     
    #70

  11. Special Patrol Group

    Special Patrol Group Self-Partnered

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    Still think that little twat Man U fan who wrote to Klopp asking for us to stop winning has a lot to answer for. We went downhill from then. ****. :frown:
     
    #71
  12. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Bobby and Mane are massively underperforming which is why we need to support them better and commit more players forward. We can't expect to keep lumping long balls to them and hope they produce something magical. Make life easier for them, get players in the box, create high volume chances.

    That was the key vs Sheff United - we were able to create a number of chances, and we were finally able to put away a couple. Creating 1 chance a game isn't good enough.

    And I disagree that the defence isn't an issue. It is - because we are conceding more chances than we are creating ever since Matip / Fabinho was broken up. This is a worrying trend for us because I would say until the Leic game, whilst we were losing, we were still able to dominate the game. We';re not even doing that anymore and every team we play against (bar Sheff) are able to cut through us.

    I'm not expecting us to be perfect defensively but we still need to tighten up in defence and midfield.
     
    #72
  13. moreinjuredthanowen

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    soryy but firmino has had lots of chances and misses the target almost all the time. e.g sheff utd and leipzig games. ridiculous misses. mane is the same.

    put the one chance away you get or at least on target and critique is much much less. v sheff utd we missed 5 absolutel sitter before we got a lucky goal or two.

    V cheslea sure, we were not creating anything but mane still got a chance and totally missed the ball.

    we dominated leicester welll enough. scored but once we let in one we fell apart.
     
    #73
  14. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the finishing is atrocious and needs to improve. But the more chances you give them, the more chance of us scoring at least 1 of those chances. I rather give the front 3 around 4-5 chances a game and expect them to score 1, than to give them 1 chance and expect them to have a 100% hit rate.
     
    #74
  15. moreinjuredthanowen

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    you'd wonder. you'd really have to.

    the quality of chance is a different thing to the hit rate. If you give a guy a snap shot and he doesn't score ok but when you are missing one on eones and not even hitting the target 3 and 4 times like frimino I'm sorry but its simply not good enough.

    whatever is up manes behind he needs to gather himself pretty quick as he's not even bothering getting in there.

    As for the rest:


    Salah hasn't even had a chance of note is 3 games. Trent refused to pass to him v sheff utd and shot when there was an open goal on. Salah himslef tried to score at near post when the angle was all gone so thats not a real chance but again he refused to cut the ball back.

    We can talk make chances and blame others but mane and frimino have been fairly pathetic recently and have not set the tone for the rest. they are all senior players and should be driving the team on.

    I've seen nothing from thiago, i think he is purely surviving right now, hes no where near fit and nees to be got back to fitness. he's going to create shag all if he can't move about and pick passes.

    I've been really disappiinted in robertson as a so called cpatain. being caught behind the line of the defense, lazy running out from frees and corners etc. he needs to be up and down the line and have the balls to get i nthe right pressing position to get up on the wide balls.

    Trents defending has been atrocious. Cant show anyone the line, cant' keep people out, won't come out and make a tack and is hanging back minding himself. the odd time he's make runs on and got beyond salah he is dangerous still. He just won't do it. look at that one run where he corssed to mane to score. thats all the way back in january v spurs.

    jones is really inconsistent. seems scared to try things to me. if he was mandated to go use his energy to pres up with the front 3 and then park two DMS in front of the CBs we might have a hope. that is what I would do personally.
     
    #75
  16. Jimmy Squarefoot

    Jimmy Squarefoot Well-Known Member

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    Lol in summary, we're **** from front to back! Hard to argue against it!
     
    #76
  17. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    If we popped fab back into defensive midfield, it offers a much more stable base to play from. The defensive is weak with or without him in the back line, it needs protection, something which wini in incapable of.

    Playing wini and either keita or jones as the more advanced midfielders puts more energy and mobility into the middle, hopefully giving more support to the front 3.

    You can have the best forward line or defensive line in the world, but if the middle of the park is overrun your going to struggle.
     
    #77
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  18. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Salah isn't **** though. he's trying. he might look frustrated but he's always done the same. he is still running.

    I didn't even hammer alisson but the lad wants to give his head a wobble. His kicking hasn't come back well after last season's injury. I don't think he is right personally. He is struggling to lift the ball if he has to go quick.

    just to add him in.
     
    #78
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  19. moreinjuredthanowen

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    have to agree. I saw little thus far from keita to suggest he's going to really help the press.

    I would like to see us play this

    ............Alisson
    TAA Kabak Davies Robertson
    .......Thiago Fabinho
    ........................Keita
    ...Salah... Firmino.... Mane

    I would feel in that robertson could push right up and rely on fabinho to cover him.

    I don't think TAA will trust Thiago to cover him and especially not salah. he would trust henderson to push on.

    IMo if you look at us pressing we should see the lead form firmino in the middle , salah amne mane push up and keita should be hovering to pin anyone in midfield with thier back to play. then taa AND robertson need to be at half way ready to sprint at any floated ball out to the opponents full backs.

    What I am seeing is one and maybe max two bothering to press now. Salah mainly. If we are trying then the full backs are miles back minding their own business and there always an easy out ball.

    I am saying if someone pings one long then the likes of thiago, fabinho davies and kabak need to just go smash it.

    Id appreciate a few more sly fouls to break up play as well.
     
    #79
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  20. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    Doubts over Kabaks fitness for RB, so if Fab plays the 6 who the **** is going to play CB.........Phillips and one other.
     
    #80

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