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Oh, what a waste of talent!

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by bcfcredandwhite, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Trundle was not going to work in Johnsons team. His best football was already behind him and City had started playing long football to Adebola's head. None of Citys forwards scored many goals in that time but it worked. Trundle up front with Darren Byfield or Akinde or John or Adebola left City paceless up front.

    LT like JET would have been better of in other teams. Both needed to be the main man.
     
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  2. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    No high horses involved, but do you want to have a attempt at describing how football skill is conferred at birth?

    Its an interesting topic.

    We have no muscle memory to perform step overs, neck stalls etc at birth, so these have to be developed via motor learning (intensive training). That is factual.

    Some football skills (rabona) are unnatural unless we walk around like a drunken Jon Cleese bending our limbs into odd positions.

    So what is natural football talent?
     
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  3. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    I'd imagine that when most people refer to natural talent, they actually mean the 'critical period' where behaviour is not necessarily learned consciously (i.e. up to age 5 for example - plucking that number out of the air).
     
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  4. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    The golden age of motor learning is thought to be 7 - 11, or according to other experts it is later (9 -13) but it is also referred to as the skill acquisition age.
     
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  5. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    I'd disagree with anyone who suggests it's up to the age of 13 personally. By that point, if you're good at football, you've almost certainly shown it, and from a certain point I think the mental focus of development should be prioritised over physical aspects. Probably not that early, but certainly before a player hits the first team.

    Despite all of his flaws, Sean O'Driscoll once said that past a certain age, a player won't really improve much physically; it's the decisions he makes and the awareness he has which will improve him as a player, and I completely agree. Forgetting skills such as the rabona and freaks of nature such as Ronaldo and Messi, the basics of passing, tackling, etc will be up to a certain standard at a certain age, and it will be the focus on tactically, when to play a pass, etc that will improve a footballer.

    Having a training session for a first team club based on improving passing, etc would be a complete waste of time in my opinion. By all means, have sessions where players can sharpen their shooting, and get it into a more familiar state mentally, but mental development trumps all once fully grown imo.
     
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  6. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    2.57 onwards may interest you.
     
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  7. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    In work at the moment but will have a gander when I'm home.
     
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  8. RedorDead

    RedorDead Well-Known Member

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    What is natural talent? Well majority of excellent footballers have this balance and that comes naturally to them not taught.

    There's one part of natural, now as you we're carry on rubbing each other up <ok>
     
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  9. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Some kids quickly learn to be on their toes and have an air of grace, but balance is something that can be taught to players via cross training, and specific drills.

    Give a kid at three and four a size five football and watch how many times they fall over it.
     
    #29
  10. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Just found out why I didn't make it past sunday league. bugger all technique at fourteen. thanks Arsene.
     
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  11. BrightredRickster

    BrightredRickster Well-Known Member

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    Puskas, Gascoigne, Tomlin, Trundle
    All beautifully gifted players with wonderful balance, fantastic feet and 20/20 vision.
    Also all slightly susceptible to putting on the lbs.

    Theirs is not an ability you can coach. All you can do is bring them to a level that maximises their physicality so that their potential may be realised.
    There is truth in the sentiment that such talent is born, not made.
    PLAYERS YOU CAN MAKE
    Platt
    Keegan
    Lampard
    Bell
    Souness
    Gerrard (perhaps)
    Robson
    Ball
    Channon
    Francis
    Coppell
    PLAYERS WHO ARE BORN WITH EXCEPTIONAL ABILITY
    Gascoigne
    Le Tiss
    Tomlin
    Dalglish
    Bowles
    Bale
    Marsh
    Hoddle
    Best
    Brady
    Charlton
    Hudson
    Curry
    Strangely I have chosen British players (mostly midfielders), but maybe this is to illustrate 2 things
    Firstly we DO produce that kind of player in Britain, and secondly,
    The English ones don't always get picked by or relied upon by our national side, whereas the continental countries make them the first name on the sheet.
    Also, thirdly, one would question wether all our exceptional players actually manage to make the most of themselves.
    Maybe for them its all just too easy….
     
    #31
    Redprintt and bcfcredandwhite like this.
  12. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I am not cherry picking but Lampard and Gascoigne made themselves. Read their auto/biographies and a common theme sticks out. They worked at their differing skills than anybody else. Both made immense sacrifices beyond what is normal - Lampard almost had no childhood beyond training, sleeping, repeat. Gascoigne was similar. Differing paths but the same theme.

    The above is a recurring theme. If talent is innate beyond the physical its a is psychological ability to want to do more than others, to push yourself more, to pursue excellence and continue to do so through childhood. Its a passion, a drive, a unrelenting desire that is psychological.

    England does not produce many technically advanced players v other nations. That is not down to dna but Englands coaching and training methods. This is starting to change via the adoption of more enlightened approaches of foreign coaching e,g. Coever, futsal and clubs/development centres/academies being technique centred versus win at all cost.

    Interestingly in freestyle England is blessed with some of the worlds best - Andrew Henderson who is appearing in Bristol over Christmas. This is man with more skill than virtually any football player on the planet and yet he could not do a 100 kick ups at ten. His talent was to apply himself again relentlessly.

    Lee Trundle in the championship was held back by his own lack of natural talent, being his one pace. He did Trundle, not his fault, that was his hand and as somebody has said to myself you can teach a athlete to play football, you cannot teach anybody to become an athlete. I think he did his very best, hats off to him.
     
    #32
  13. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately there are a lot of sublimely talented players on that list who were born with exceptional ability and who have a pittance of international caps to show for their talents.

    Curry, Bowles, Le Tiss, Hudson etc for sure, and I'd also add in Frank Worthington who was always great entertainment on and off the field.
     
    #33
  14. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Off to see John Farnworth with the kids. One day maybe Farnworth and BCF!!!

     
    #34

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