Official Talk Bollox Thread

[Klopp's Mannschaft]

It (3 year or 5 year plans) has been something that has been said since the days of Houllier and is god awful tbh. It actually sets you back and is unecessary - as this season has shown. Your target every season is top 4 and if you don't get it, that should be seen as failure. Same applies to United, Arsenal (City and Chelsea in the modern era). Since the day Henry took over the aim has been to finish top 4 and rightly so.

Each new regime (management or ownership) has to be considered different because the changes hugely affect the team. Rodgers came in and we were miles behind both in points and in quality of players. You can't just expect top 4 straight away. It's not possible. You need a few years to build up and bridge that gap, which for us was a massive one. Rodgers and the board targeted three years; we've done it in two. I don't see what's "god awful" about being realistic in expectations.

Realistically, United have a crap tonne of work which is needed to their team, they'll have a new management again and are a long way shy of fourth. Should you be targeting fourth? Absolutely, you need to be back in the CL. Realistically, will you get fourth? I don't see it. LVG will be looking at the season after. If you finish 5th next season, with a new group of players, settled and playing good football again, will that be a failed season given your current situation? I'd say no. It would be a great platform to challenge the season after.

I think it's very easy for fans to loose sight of what their team is capable of doing.

 

[Tobes]

@RAWK_Meltdown
(Everton 2 - 3 Man City) We should request an investigation of match fixing into this. Try and permanently damage their club

Hahahahahaha, that site really is the gift that never stops giving.

The bitter morons that frequent it have been posting some absolute whoppers since the game yesterday.

 

[Treble]

Loving the way you're swerving other issues that have affected our quest for the title/top 4 since Houllier Treble.

You mean like your managers

I think you should have higher aspirations than Spurs and Arsenal regardless tbf. Seriously, if anyone at United talked of a 5 year plan I'd kill myself.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

You mean like your managers

I think you should have higher aspirations than Spurs and Arsenal regardless tbf. Seriously, if anyone at United talked of a 5 year plan I'd kill myself.

You like fans of Arsenal support clubs that have had stability and managers there for many seasons that were able to put long term plans into practice, Fergie's been gone a year and already your club is in crisis.

Considering Rodgers has only been here two seasons the improvement has been immense, hope he gets time to see out his future plans with us.

 

[terrifictraore]

You like fans of Arsenal support clubs that have had stability and managers there for many seasons that were able to put long term plans into practice, Fergie's been gone a year and already your club is in crisis.

Considering Rodgers has only been here two seasons the improvement has been immense, hope he gets time to see out his future plans with us.

No good talking sense to him, people forget just how bad we were and how close we were to bankruptcy. It would have been almost miracle like to recover from that in one season so of course you have to have a plan that has success markers along the way.

would utd celebrate 4th next season with them playing good football and being on a upward curve? Well, the shareholders and sensible fans would.

 

[Treble]

You like fans of Arsenal support clubs that have had stability and managers there for many seasons that were able to put long term plans into practice, Fergie's been gone a year and already your club is in crisis.

Considering Rodgers has only been here two seasons the improvement has been immense, hope he gets time to see out his future plans with us.

And Spurs? My point is that if a mess of a club like spurs, with less stability than Liverpool, can aim for (and achieve) top 4 then that is the minimum Liverpool should expect. I mentioned Arsenal bcos they've been scraping top 4 and I think if you were to be taking top 4 in the last 3 seasons it would have been at their expense, and that would have been realistically achievable. Are you saying that at the start of this season your aim wasn't a top 4 finish???

As for United, even with the change of manager our expectation was still to finish top 4 wasn't it? We didn't so we failed. If we don't do it next season we fail. Btw you don't honestly believe we're a club in crisis do you? I'd say that's wishful thinking, we've been written off before and we will again no doubt, but we've always bounced back.

 

[DirtyFrank]

It (3 year or 5 year plans) has been something that has been said since the days of Houllier and is god awful tbh. It actually sets you back and is unecessary - as this season has shown. Your target every season is top 4 and if you don't get it, that should be seen as failure. Same applies to United, Arsenal (City and Chelsea in the modern era). Since the day Henry took over the aim has been to finish top 4 and rightly so.

Depends on your view..Each one is only awful if it fails..Or only partially succeeds.

BR had to remove a large quantity of players not good enough or too old, bring in new players to get to CL standard without the attraction of CL and bring the youth through, all on a budget that is by no means small but not as big as 4 other clubs not including the one off gamble spurs had...

And Spurs actually suggest you are wrong. Spent all their money in one go and looked a mighty squad on paper..And did nothing....so no plan is as bad as a bad plan.

United will find out all about it. Now, you may get the luck and get the players you need all in one summer and then get the right chemistry with players and new management to gel it all together in one season..but it'll be tough...If you don't quite make it after one season does this manager follow Moyes? One year plans or three year plans, its the "almost there" which is dangerous not the abject failures like Moyes and hodgeson. It's how long you accept almost there...like Arsenal...

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

No good talking sense to him, people forget just how bad we were and how close we were to bankruptcy. It would have been almost miracle like to recover from that in one season so of course you have to have a plan that has success markers along the way.

would utd celebrate 4th next season with them playing good football and being on a upward curve? Well, the shareholders and sensible fans would.

Exactly tt, they make it sound like its been a level playing field for each club without taking all things into consideration.

 

[Treble]

Depends on your view..Each one is only awful if it fails..Or only partially succeeds.

BR had to remove a large quantity of players not good enough or too old, bring in new players to get to CL standard without the attraction of CL and bring the youth through, all on a budget that is by no means small but not as big as 4 other clubs not including the one off gamble spurs had...

And Spurs actually suggest you are wrong. Spent all their money in one go and looked a mighty squad on paper..And did nothing....so no plan is as bad as a bad plan.

United will find out all about it. Now, you may get the luck and get the players you need all in one summer and then get the right chemistry with players and new management to gel it all together in one season..but it'll be tough...If you don't quite make it after one season does this manager follow Moyes? One year plans or three year plans, its the "almost there" which is dangerous not the abject failures like Moyes and hodgeson. It's how long you accept almost there...like Arsenal...

I see what you're saying Frank, but even with Dalglish, when you were spending large sums on players, he was being trusted to finish top 4 - Liverpool couldn't afford to hand out those sums without that aim. Ultimately, he was sacked bcos he failed to do that. I do get that you don't have the resources of the likes of Chelsea or City, but you have had enough to challenge Arsenal for that 4th spot.

Btw have you listened to Henry's interview recently where he talks about his fascination with mathematical probability. He says his (along with Rodgers) analysis at the start of the season predicted it was likely you would finish top 4. He came up with a percentage but I can't remember it. I've heard he focuses a lot on this sort of thing. That together with what I hear most Liverpool fans saying at the time, suggests 4th was definitely the aim for Liverpool this season.

Re: United, I think the alleged problem of players gelling, all depends on how many players you and I think United need. United fans disagree about that so there's every chance we won't agree either. But imo it's not a complete overhaul. This reminds me a lot of our situation (as far as our squad is concerned) between the period 05 to 07. But time will tell.

 

[DirtyFrank]

No I agree On both points T,

Top 4 has to be minimum and if it's not achieved its a failure...whether a big enough failure depends on how on the same page the owners and managers are about the state of the squad vs the reality of how good the opposition turn out to be in a given year....as you say KD paid the price for his spend outresching performance (in the opinion of the owners)

Rodgers appears ahead of schedule which will add extra pressure but depend on I f we acquire our targets to compete in all comps, if not, then I assume the owners will have priorities...the self sustainability Iwould suggest top 4 again...but that catn be the continual accepted outcome...

As for United. I think you've too many squad players that played a majority of the games this year..they are all very good squad players beside the eleven but not AS the eleven.

Now I don't know Van Gaals set up preferences so I assume it'll be RVP up front on his own...so I think you need two quality attackers with pace out wide, a CB, and someone with authority in midfield...a leader.

If you can get more then a LB, back up RB..And another striker but they are not priorities.

4 PL ready players of the highest quality will get you competitive again.

 

[DirtyFrank]

To add to that, I think it's more who you get rid of to freshen up the dressing room attitude.

Vidic is going and I'd have Rio join him, as well as Nani. Giggs (not saying his attitude is wrong but his ego might be), Fellani, and a couple of the lesser players who didn't step up.

Refine your squad down to a smaller unit and then make sure it's only players going the same direction...not coming to a stop..

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Hahahahahaha, that site really is the gift that never stops giving.

The bitter morons that frequent it have been posting some absolute whoppers since the game yesterday.

Serious question Tobes - do you REALLY think RAWK is representative of the majority of Liverpool fans that you know personally, and those of us on this site? Been on 12 hour nights so I didn't get much chance to comment yesterday, but my take on the game was hope crushed by expectation. I think the depleted team Everton put out did what they could (my God, that Alcaraz is every bit as bad as you said) but that's the way the dice have rolled.

Think everton put in a five times better effort than Palace did last week against City, that's for sure. So no bitterness from me - if we don't win it (exceedingly unlikely now) I hope City do. As long as Chelsea don't.

And good luck in the Europa League next year. Just like ourselves and the league championship, the fact that Martinez has not been able to get fourth shouldn't obscure the fact that to get you in fifth, and finish ahead of Spurs and United, has been superb. Let's hope we both consolidate, and even build on what we've achieved this term.

Been a fabulous season, and better than fighting each other for seventh place, ffs.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Speaking of rolling over, with two games left there's a ****load of penalties to be won. So Nancy Boy will barely be on his feet; as a special gift, the FA have even given you Clattenberg for the occasion tomorrow.

So the title's in the bag, there was no need for us to help you. Some of you reds are far too pessimistic.

Clattenburg, the ref who DIDN'T give us two stonewall penalties at United.

 

[jenners04]

Clattenburg, the ref who DIDN'T give us two stonewall penalties at United.

good point donga, trouble is they will just point to the pen we was lucky to get not the 2 we SHOULD have got.

 

[Foredeckdave]

You mean like your managers

I think you should have higher aspirations than Spurs and Arsenal regardless tbf. Seriously, if anyone at United talked of a 5 year plan I'd kill myself.

Deluded! You won't turn that pile of rubbish into a winning team that quickly!!