Grand Prix thread Official Not606 Monaco Grand Prix Chat and Predictions

I think if Ricciardo had been having a go into the corner then Hamilton could have been in trouble with the stewards even for a 'first time offence'. The same thing happened with Massa when Vettel was behind him, Vettel wasn't having a go at the time so he got away with it. There's a fine line between stopping the run off being used as a get out of jail free card and making it so the drivers can't realistically push for fear of repercussions.

In many ways I agree that in a ideal world drivers should be punished if they can't keep on the track, but realistically it would take something away from the sport long term. Where would you draw the line.

 

I don't think a bollard is an issue compared to the Armco or kitty litter that would be in places in years gone by. Like you say there is a very fine line between these things, but if making the corner was the difference between losing a position or being out of the race, I think there would be a lot less mistakes and just rolling off the brake in chicanes or slow corners.

 

The Massa version.

I'm sure it happened many times off camera yesterday with a fair few of them able to make the corner if they really wanted to. It's a tricky one that's for sure, like if you miss the chicane in clear traffic how much do you need to slow for it to be ok.

Track limits needs to be enforced more throughout F1 really, and at least Monaco has barriers to make sure the majority of limits are well enforced

 

Monaco is always a farcical race which does not belong on the modern day f1 calendar. God only knows how next years wider and longer cars will work their way around.

I would have quite happily watched a Turkish or French Grand Prix. Where the track raced on wouldn't cause so much calamity and chaos, which in itself took away from the racing yesterday.

 

One thing everyone seems to be overlooking....when the race began didn't Ricciardo open a 13 second gap on Rosberg in second place and almost 14 seconds on Hamilton in third place in seven laps? Then when Rosberg released Hamilton, didn't Hamilton make up a chunk of that time in just five laps on the same wet tyres that people were struggling on including his team mate? When everyone pitted when the track was drying didn't Hamilton continue on his wet tyres and was still putting in fairly quick lap? In fact he was putting in time equal to his team mate and others for a while on fresh dry tyres that is why he was able to stay out that long. When Red Bull made the inexcusable blunder with Ricciardo in the pit lane, Hamilton came out in front, but Hamilton was holding off Ricciardo for about 45 laps with tyres that were supposed to be dead in about 20. I haven't heard anyone say how well he did to manage them that distance, especially for a man who they claim used to eat his tyres. Those are some of the things that brought him into play. The issue where he made the mistake and cut the corner, it must be noted that Ricciardo was not in a position to overtake him there. For Ricciardo to have overtaken Hamilton there he would have had to cut the corner..he simply wasn't in position to overtake Hamilton. What it gave Ricciardo was a better exit and a chance to overtake coming out of that corner. The problem with that was when he made the overtaking move he had to go on the wet side of the track and his car began to twitch and he had to pull out. He had more than a car's width because at one point his front wing was alongside Hamilton's rear tyre and there was still space to the side of the walls. I am sure if it were dry he would have blasted through and no one would have said anything. There is no rule that says when it is wet certain parts of the track is out of bounds. One last thing, Ricciardo reaction afterwards was totally understandable. After two cockups in a row he was right to be angry, the same goes to Hamilton. As a racer when you get this crap race after race you must get angry...those engineers are professionals and you can't tell me you are going to make all those mistakes. I like the fact that they are not hypocritical..show your feelings no matter what. Any racer that is happy with losing will never be a champion. That's just make take. Red Bull better watch out or they might lose one of the best drivers in F1.

 

Lewis's wet pace was excellent as was Riccardo and whilst he reduced the deficit he didn't eradicate it. When Riccardo pitted Lewis held a 10 ish second lead which Riccardo then reduced in 4 or so laps - Lewis's pace at this stage may have matched the initial dry runners (for a lap or so) but at the cross over point it would do anyway? What Lewis had achieved was track position, which he would then lose when he would have to pit for slicks - had RB not had their issues. The fresher inters would have afforded Riccardo a bigger window than the used Wets of The Merc. Merc had effectively raced for 2nd on track if it wasn't for the RB blunder. What we don't know is how it would have panned out if he was free from Nico immediately.

In relation to the overtake, unless people have raced on a race track it's difficult to quantify positioning and advantage. Lewis defended taking the inside line from Riccardo, which would have lead to a potential overtake if he hadn't. By doing so Lewis had removed/defended the opportunity for Riccardo. However, by doing so his turn in angle to legitimately stay within the confines of the track were drastically reduced, in fact negated because he failed to make the chicane. It's simple case of Action = Reaction. As we were discussing earlier in the thread, if their was Armco he would have crashed, because there wasn't he was able to bail out if he chose.

Now for the record this is not an attack on Lewis, but the state of F1 as a whole in relation to mistakes not affecting the position of a competitor.

 

I think several people in this forum are making well-reasoned points. From a heated, passionate – and perhaps reactionary – debate, it's turned into a pretty healthy discussion and is now beginning to address some of the more fundamental difficulties within F1.

• its rules and their application
• its venues and need to incorporate varied design
• safety
• its absolute need to encourage exciting, competitive spectacle
• fairness and consistency which aims to maximise understanding and minimise confusion for all whilst still taking reasonable account of points above. 'All' includes drivers; teams; rule makers and those charged with presiding over them at the time (rather than in the aftermath such as occurs in a healthy forum); media presentation and its various pundits; and ultimately a still enormous, global public which varies from those with an ever-more well-informed passion to casual viewers tired with olde-Englishe lawn games (particularly BBC's beloved cricket!), darts, American rounders, or the thespian-ship of hopeful cheats (encouraged by the media) who litter modern day footy.

In particular though, I want to thank BLS for serving up valid evidence, as usual. His two video clips illustrate a good portion of the problem and provide very good comparison for anyone seriously attempting to set aside emotion (often perceived as prejudices by those with different prejudices!) – which are all based on a unique and personal understanding of previous events.

I would urge everyone to have a fresh look at BLS' video clips whilst trying to ignore who the drivers are. Ask a simple question: which of the two incidents provided the greatest 'advantage' to the defending driver*? Reflect on this for a moment, taking account of the need for consistency in refereeing decisions (as outlined above). Difficult as it might be, I'd urge all to try to be objective about the position of the attacking driver (if there was one) and which incident presented the best opportunity for any such attacking driver. Then consider the meaning of 'advantage' in the context of the rules and how a definition to that word is most commonly arrived at – by those under immediate time pressure of a global spotlight who preside over a rule book which guides its unfortunate interpreters to also take account of sector times and lap times. And finally, compare the outcome of the incidents: which of the two incidents presented the better opportunity to the attacking driver*?

Difficult as it might be, the best understanding is usually dispassionate. This is why I applaud BLS for providing the possibility of a direct and objective comparison and why I am going to return to the Awards Thread to finish a job I was not properly up to last night!


** Despite an apparent similarity, the two asterisks ask distinct questions.

 

This is a really good point.

 

Has it been confirmed what Rosberg's issues were in the race? Was it brakes the whole way through?

Can't believe it was just Rosberg having an off day, as he's won the last 2 or 3 Monaco GP's, yet was nearly lapped on Sunday.

Whatever the reason, Merc were right to tell him to let Hamilton through. If they hadn't Hamilton would not have been able to benefit from RBR royally screwing Ricciardo's race.

 

I'm not sure but I would surmise there was a problem, firstly I can't see Nico yielding at a place like Monaco where position over pace is more important if there wasn't a fundemental issue that all were aware of. Secondly the Delta between the Mercs was just too massive, and Nico at one point looked one of the slowest cars on the track.

Having said that, there has been no press delving into the reasons why. Maybe because British press don't want to establish why a German driver was overwhelmingly outperformed by not only his team mate, but also 5 other drivers. It would likely have been more if Kimi and Max remained in the race.

 

Don't forget that Rosberg was way behind Hamilton last year too with Vettel on his tail. I believe this year was simply Mercedes changing the setup on both cars before the race to give a little more oversteer which seemed to work for Lewis but not Nico. Also, I think Monaco suits Lewis better as will Montreal.

 

Monaco GP...
Lots of glamour but very little in the way of interest, normally..
But this years was pretty good..

Feel for Danny Ric... they (Redbull) subconsciously balls'd up his race in Spain and here were highly negligent at the time it mattered most!
The lad could be very close to Rosberg had they not cocked up!
If the Renault has a bit more grunt then it could challenge in Canada, but, I have a feeling, hope I'm wrong, that normal Merc service will be resumed come Canada, its a power track and Merc have a new upgraded engine on its way.
On current form, you'd have to say the nearest challengers to the Merc's are Redbull now...

 

What a bloody cluster. Doh.