That doesn't necessarily guarantee that those rules would make trade more favourable for the UK though. Also our most of our exports go to Europe, so surely it would be better to ensure that we're on the inside with our biggest market, rather than being compromised by being on the outside.
By being in the EU more of our trade will naturally shift towards the EU due to the trade rules. Obviously geographically it makes sense as well. If we left we would see a rise in trade with countries outside the EU (I'd expect trade deals to be put in place quickly with certain countries and others would take longer) and depending on the deal we then strike with the EU I'd expect our trade with the EU to stay fairly similar, the EU loses out on more than we do if they make it difficult to trade with them and given the fairly unstable economic situation in much of Europe we are probably in quite a strong negotiating position at the moment should we choose to pull out. Obviously there is an element of uncertainty due to fact a new deal would need to be made and there are currently no terms for that deal. Given the giant emerging markets and middle classes in Asia and South America there are vast opportunities outside of Europe to be taken advantage of. We don't have to rely on Europe and close ourselves off to the world.
My concern would be that negotiating our exit would take years and both trade and the Pound would suffer, which would have a negative impact on jobs and security in investment in the UK from other countries. I think many of the foreign companies based in the UK would just upsticks and relocate to the continent on the back of that insecurity, because business is notoriously adverse to risk. Also once extrapolated from the EU, we still have to trade with the EU on their terms anyway, but we'd have no say on shaping those rules. The USA, China, South America and other Asian markets trade with the EU anyway, which we benefit from by being a part of it. There's no guarantee that our deals would be any better by being outside of the EU. The argument I'm hearing from the out team is that they don't like the EU because we give away our sovereignty and allow others to make rules, but currently we are part of shaping those rules, and the rules benefit us anyway. Also we seem to be much better placed to tackle big issues like Security and Global warming as part of the EU, rather than being isolated on the outside. I'm not particularly pro or anti EU, I just don't see the out arguments bringing us any benefits, only insecurity. I know you can't make direct parallels, but it's not dissimilar to the Wenger in/out debate. The out advocates say get rid because we could do things differently, but don't really have any idea of what that would look like exactly, and don't seem to take into account what we would lose in the process.
@paragraph1 - valid concerns in regards to the pound and uncertainty in the markets, a lot of that depends on how the situation is managed rather than what direction we are going in. However I think we are more likely to see company mergers and takeovers amongst the larger businesses to ensure they keep a foothold in Europe and remain based in one of the worlds financial capitals. Which is what we are seeing with the announced merger talks between the LSE and the Deutsche Borse in the run up to the referendum. The large businesses will find ways to continue operations across Europe as close to normal as possible. @paragraph 2 - plenty of legislation passed through the EU isn't in the best interests of the U.K., the fishing rules are a good example. So the rules don't always benefit us, some do, others don't. We should be capable of writing our own legislation. In terms of being able to deal with the larger issues, Security benefits from the close links in the EU I'm sure, but we also work closely with the US, Australia and several other nations around the world without them being part of the EU. With the current tense security situation I can't see the security links with EU countries being softened if we left the EU. Global warming is an issue that requires global co-operation if we actually want to have any kind of impact and I don't see our membership of the EU being a deciding factor in how that one goes for humanity! I do get the point you are making though.
Do you think all the thousands of Brits living in EU countries claiming benefits are going to be allowed to live there claiming benefits ?
It's not a 'project fear' statement at all,by leaving the EU we lose the benefit of free movement of labour.We would also lose the benefits of the Working Time Directive.
Again, that will depend on the individual country and what there system is for paying benefits. If those people qualify for residency or citizenship for example they are highly likely to continue to qualify for benefits. Which I have no issue with.
It is a complete fear mongering statement. The idea that millions of people will be thrown from there homes across Europe is complete nonsense.
But we do have FTA agreements with other countries already - like the commonwealth free trade agreememt
As it stands any agreements with countries outside the EU must still meet the EU Customs rules and pay the customs tariffs. There are clear barriers to entry. We also, as far as I am aware do not have a free trade agreement with the common wealth. It's an idea that has been floated and discussed but never put into action afaik. Whilst in the EU, we simply don't have the freedom to make the kind of trade deals with the rest of the world that we could outside the EU.
Sorry i didn't mean close our borders in a literal sense, but stop migration. I'm just wondering if it'll take a few years or everything stops straight away. Also, what would happen to the people that have already settled here for a couple years? I know that after a certain time you're allow to apply for permanent residency, but would we be kicking people out? I'm not sure if this would work as the majority just came over, through open borders.
We could possibly negotiate a tailored trade deal as Canada & Turkey have already done. There is also the EEA which Norway are signed up to. There is still a fee to be paid, but it would take all EU interference away from our fisheries, legal system, foreign policy, and other bits 'n' bobs.
There is no legal basis to boot people out the country, it's been discussed before, it would simply mean from the point we left that no EU citizens could move here without applying for the correct visa/residency. Anyone already here would be given a status dependant on how long they had been here.
I agree with you, but I believe we are in a strong enough position to be able to pick and mix from the variety of existing collaborations in order to create something unique.
Unique doesn't necessarily mean better though. Whatever way you look at it, if we want to trade with Europe (and they are our biggest market) then you have to trade under EU rules. We'd basically just be giving up the benefits of being part of the EU and our place at the negotiating table, yet we'd still be subject to those rules.
Statement was meant as tongue in cheek but I was tired and didn't add the relevant emoticon. Away from this board though it is difficult to see which camp is actually 'project fear'. Last night's 'Question Time' debate featured two very weak politicians supporting "in" who buckled and allowed shouty opponents to steer the discussion away from facts and onto personalities. At least in this board we have fair attempts to present 'facts'. I said earlier I was undecided but slightly leaning towards 'out' but could be open to persuasion. That, I fear, will not come from any politicians lead. I am going to have to try and dig out unbiased reports and work it out for myself.
The CBI have urged UK business leaders to stay in the EU because of the benefits it brings to our trade. Big business will go where it's most favourable for them to trade and currently that is within the EU. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...reasons-for-staying-within-a-reformed-EU.html
Good balanced debate here from the FT http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz41GPAXSG8
