( OFF TOPIC) Protester attacked at Greys Monument Camp

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Jacky I'm far from a Tory, however I am certainly no socialist...

I don't see that we should pay for the global financial meltdown (and the greed of a minority) and I CERTAINLY don't agree with the abolition of minimum wage (that is frankly a disgraceful suggestion in my opinion, philosophical or otherwise). But rather than sitting in tents and pissing people off. Why not be pro-active! Start a business which will increase funds in the private sector, allowing for money to be spent in the public sector and in turn stop this country hemorrhaging £50b a year...That is a budget deficit, I repeat £50m EACH YEAR!

'cause its easier to sit and moan in a tent than it is to recognize a problem and address it!
 
holystone:1550873 said:
biggeordiedave said:
Just do fiddle jobs, cash in hand etc. **** 'em!
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Good old socialist values.........look after No1. And who's going to pay for army/elderly care/benefits?????......................Doh!
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Now elderly care is an interesting one. The baby boomers have not only burdened this working generation with footing the bill for their debt based lifestyle, the huge demographic surge reaching retirement and needing care is going to burden the working population again with taxes to fund the big extra cost of care.
 
holystone said:
If tax is theft................who the **** pays for the dole/benefits/education???????????...........yes taxes you dumb ****
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I've already said. The voluntary sector would replace the compulsory one. And you haven't done anything to dissuade me that tax is theft - all you're saying is that it's theft which goes towards a good cause. Last time I checked, that's still wrong because it was stolen money in the first place.

Jesus Was A Geordie said:
I CERTAINLY don't agree with the abolition of minimum wage (that is frankly a disgraceful suggestion in my opinion, philosophical or otherwise).
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Well I think it's a disgraceful state of affairs that you can be killed by the police just for defending your own property, whether that be the wage you work to earn or the wage you pay to your workers for choosing to participate in your company.

Jesus Was A Geordie said:
But rather than sitting in tents and pissing people off. Why not be pro-active! Start a business which will increase funds in the private sector, allowing for money to be spent in the public sector and in turn stop this country hemorrhaging £50b a year...That is a budget deficit, I repeat £50m EACH YEAR!

'cause its easier to sit and moan in a tent than it is to recognize a problem and address it!
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We're in agreement with this. Their little camping holiday on the Monument isn't doing anyone any favours.
 
Jacky_Ickx said:
Now elderly care is an interesting one. The baby boomers have not only burdened this working generation with footing the bill for their debt based lifestyle, the huge demographic surge reaching retirement and needing care is going to burden the working population again with taxes to fund the big extra cost of care.
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I've news for you. You pay your dues, you get the elderly care free. It's only people with savings who suffer. My point is if EVERYONE paid no tax, we'd be bloody Somalia...............LOL
 
holystone said:
I've news for you. You pay your dues, you get the elderly care free. It's only people with savings who suffer. My point is if EVERYONE paid no tax, we'd be bloody Somalia...............LOL
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Disregarding the fact that Somalia is a violent and unsettled place and has been for centuries unlike the UK (and is therefore incomparable), it was actually at its most productive when there was no compulsory government. I can post some articles on the matter if you like, it's something that interests me.
 
Leeds-18 said:
I've already said. The voluntary sector would replace the compulsory one. And you haven't done anything to dissuade me that tax is theft - all you're saying is that it's theft which goes towards a good cause. Last time I checked, that's still wrong because it was stolen money in the first place.
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By the way, not being able to pay your way is why LEEDS UNITED are ****ed. Get it? You prattle on about a Utopia Communist society........know any good ones?

Russia....bent as hell. Remind me how billionaires like Abramovich came about......thieving state assets
China....military controlled society
Cuba.....skint
 
holystone said:
Good old socialist values.........look after No1. And who's going to pay for army/elderly care/benefits?????......................Doh!
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It was a joke! I work relatively hard (I turn up) and I pay my taxes! I don't have a trade so wouldn't be able to do fiddle jobs anyway!
 
holystone said:
By the way, not being able to pay your way is why LEEDS UNITED are ****ed. Get it? You prattle on about a Utopia Communist society........know any good ones?

Russia....bent as hell. Remind me how billionaires like Abramovich came about......thieving state assets
China....military controlled society
Cuba.....skint
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I've never mentioned the word utopia or implied some kind of universal communism. I said people would have the choice to join a voluntary communist government if they so wished - in the same way they could a liberal, fascist, socialist, libertarian, agrarian or nomadic one. That's the beauty of voluntarism. It's not compulsory and tyrannical like the governments you bring up. How can I give you examples of it? There's never been such a situation because so far the world's been controlled by a ruling class of tyrants who keep themselves on top with violence, elected or otherwise.

And yes, you're right about Leeds. I don't think anyone's ever disputed that Ridsdale's incompetence had to meet its fate. Our divine right to success on the other hand, that's another matter. ;)
 
holystone said:
By the way, not being able to pay your way is why LEEDS UNITED are ****ed. Get it? You prattle on about a Utopia Communist society........know any good ones?

Russia....bent as hell. Remind me how billionaires like Abramovich came about......thieving state assets
China....military controlled society
Cuba.....skint
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Actually the state sold them the assets when they were near enough broke and were in danger of reneging on a payments to the World Bank. The fact that they were able to get the assets at discount prices was not thier fault.

The way that Putin has reclaimed these assets is theft.
 
overseasTOON said:
Actually the state sold them the assets when they were near enough broke and were in danger of reneging on a payments to the World Bank. The fact that they were able to get the assets at discount prices was not thier fault.

The way that Putin has reclaimed these assets is theft.
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Assets that were sold to cronies of Boris Yeltsin in return for political favours. Putin has a good right to want them back for the country not just a dozen rich guys. Come on , Russia is about the most corrupt , gang ran country on earth. What he did to Mikhail Khodorkovsky was wrong but the result put the thieved asset back into state's hands for benefit of the country. You never hear Abramovich sounding off.........if he did the same would happen to him.
 
holystone said:
Assets that were sold to cronies of Boris Yeltsin in return for political favours. Putin has a good right to want them back for the country not just a dozen rich guys. Come on , Russia is about the most corrupt , gang ran country on earth. What he did to Mikhail Khodorkovsky was wrong but the result put the thieved asset back into state's hands for benefit of the country. You never hear Abramovich sounding off.........if he did the same would happen to him.
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How are they thieved assets?

They were sold to raise money and stop Russia defaulting on payments that would have harmed their reputation. That's a simple fact of economics.

The fact that the assets were available on the cheap is not a fault with the end buyers. Russia could have raised 10 times the amount by opening up to international markets and bidders but opted not to.
 
overseasTOON said:
How are they thieved assets?

They were sold to raise money and stop Russia defaulting on payments that would have harmed their reputation. That's a simple fact of economics.

The fact that the assets were available on the cheap is not a fault with the end buyers. Russia could have raised 10 times the amount by opening up to international markets and bidders but opted not to.
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Ok. History lesson No1.

In 1995, Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, an associate of President Boris Yeltsin, acquired the controlling interest in the large oil company Sibneft. The deal was within the controversial loans-for-shares program and each partner paid US$100 million for half of the company, below the stake's stock market value of US$150 million at the time, and rapidly turned it up into billions. The fast-rising value of the company led many observers, in hindsight, to suggest that the real cost of the company should have been in the billions of dollars.[19] Abramovich later admitted in court that he paid huge bribes (in billions) to government officials and obtained protection from gangsters to acquire these and other assets. WIKIPEDIA

Let's agree one thing. Russia is bent .
 
Leeds-18 said:
I've never mentioned the word utopia or implied some kind of universal communism. I said people would have the choice to join a voluntary communist government if they so wished - in the same way they could a liberal, fascist, socialist, libertarian, agrarian or nomadic one. That's the beauty of voluntarism. It's not compulsory and tyrannical like the governments you bring up. How can I give you examples of it? There's never been such a situation because so far the world's been controlled by a ruling class of tyrants who keep themselves on top with violence, elected or otherwise.

And yes, you're right about Leeds. I don't think anyone's ever disputed that Ridsdale's incompetence had to meet its fate. Our divine right to success on the other hand, that's another matter. ;)
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Agree the Leeds/Ridsdale outcome

Think the country you've just described is Afghanistan .......LOL
 
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